Tomb Raider dev backing off 'attempted rape' comments
Tomb Raider developer Crystal Dynamics has backed off of comments about an attempted rape scene in the game, saying that the game does not cover "sexual assault of any kind."
The new Tomb Raider marks a fresh start for Lara Croft, as less of a disproportionate sex bomb and more of an identifiable human character. But that reboot is running into some bumps, as the team at Crystal Dynamics tries to balance the tone of putting this younger, more innocent Lara in harm's way. A few comments, particularly revolving around a dire attempted rape, have been causing issues for the studio.
The issue of Lara's very first kill has raised eyebrows, as the company seemingly backpedals on talking about the attempted rape scene. Executive producer Ron Rosenberg told Kotaku that the threat of rape forces Lara to fight back and kill her attackers. "Rapists" are up there with Nazis and zombies in our society's collective "List of Okay-to-Kill Things," but Crystal D has since backed off that point when talking about the game.
A statement from studio head Darrell Gallagher stresses that the game never actively portrays a rape. "This is where Lara is forced to kill another human for the first time," he states. "In this particular selection, while there is a threatening undertone in the sequence and surrounding drama, it never goes any further than the scenes that we have already shown publicly. Sexual assault of any kind is categorically not a theme that we cover in this game."
This comes hot on the heels of another controversial remark by Rosenberg, who said that gamers will want to "protect" the new Lara Croft. The statement has been met with some criticism from fans, who say that it undermine's Lara's strength as a character.
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replySteve Watts posted a new article, Tomb Raider dev backing off 'attempted rape' comments.
Tomb Raider developer Crystal Dynamics has backed off of comments about an attempted rape scene in the game, saying that the game does not cover "sexual assault of any kind."-
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Kind of missing the point. The change of tone from her being a badass to some kind of "cornered animal" and reluctant hero is lame.
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Yeah. The game seems like Tomb Raider Begins. I like it.
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well the badass version hasn't really been impressing people in the past decade...
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I think that has more to do with gameplay and other factors. I highly doubt it's backstory related. If CD had made Tomb Raider the game Uncharted is before Uncharted I think it would have sold really well.
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I'm sure, but now it would probably just come off as a lesser Uncharted clone with a girl
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That's why I said before Uncharted.
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Yes but you're saying the tone change is lame because it could've been what Uncharted became. Sure, I agree, but they failed to do that in the past iterations so now if they just churn out something that looks like Uncharted with Lara they'll likely just be a lesser clone and get knocked for it. So it makes sense to try to do something different. Reboots and origin stories are all the rage in movies lately, I don't see the problem with doing it for Tomb Raider, especially as there's a large swath of the gaming population that is now entirely unfamiliar with the Lara Croft and caliber of Tomb Raider game that made the franchise famous.
You could easily imagine them ending up in a Warcraft->Warhammer situation with a generation of gamers assuming Umcharted came first and Tomb Raider is just a weaker clone with a hot girl.
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I disagree. I'm tired of incredibly capable protagonists, and her vulnerability in the trailer was interesting. I don't think Lara Croft needs to remain whatever she was before simply because she's one of the few heroines in videogames. Let them try something new.
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Agree to disagree then.
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Yeah why does every game have to have a super soldier in disguise now? I really enjoyed dark souls because I had to earn every advantage.
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I didn't say every game. I am just talking about Tomb Raider.
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lol ok I'll rephrase, Why do most triple A games... I think it's to take advantage of the medium with games coming up like the last of us I hope that'll change.
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But why does it have to be so cliche?
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Yeah, should have made it like she killed the guy because they were both competing for food. That or she stepped on his favorite turtle.
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Oh I get that, I personally like their approach it gives you background on how she became hardcore(my take). Its fresh I would of thought most would appreciate this design decision it give the main char character and lets it grow as you play.
I take ever sequel and new game I play as a individual piece of art, I am never hooked up on its predecessor I only care about if its quality and I enjoy it, that's just how I roll. Currently I like what I see in the new Tomb Raider and that's to me is all what matters personally. -
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Last time I checked she was never part of any of the worlds Special Forces so if this is a re boot and almost the making of Lara Croft I think is a brilliant idea and make sense.
Its not like she has freaking black belts in all martial arts, torture training, is a prize fighter, marks women, part of Special Forces etc etc then yeah you would expect her to not act that way and I can see the complaints(especially if this is like the begging of here career).
Well that's what I have told my mind and its seems to not have rejected it and likes it, weather others minds will accept it that's totally up to your brain only time will tell.
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Wanted to quote this line:
"This comes hot on the heels of another controversial remark by Rosenberg, who said that gamers will want to "protect" the new Lara Croft. The statement has been met with some criticism from fans, who say that it undermine's Lara's strength as a character."
This game is an "origin" story of how Lara got her start. She wasn't always the strong female character that fans recognize. She wasn't born a tomb-raiding badass, she was formed into one by life experiences.
As for the rape, people need to start treating games like the leading industry form of entertainment that it is. You hear about it in songs, you read about it in books, you see it in movies... why is it such a massive deal that you play it in a video game. Games aren't just for children anymore, and with their highly immersive environments and stories/characters that you spend countless hours coming to understand, it's situations like these that allow you to feel for the "person" that you're controlling in the game world. Stop treating games like the bastard child that got left behind and embrace them for what they are; interactive art.-
Thanks for this boss post love this line "This game is an "origin" story of how Lara got her start. She wasn't always the strong female character that fans recognize. She wasn't born a tomb-raiding badass, she was formed into one by life experiences."
And the rest you of what you said too, I totally agree with you. -
This post demonstrates exactly why there was backlash regarding the use of rape as a plot point, and it shows your complete lack of understanding of the situation.
First of all, rape is never something to be taken lightly. Can it be used in fiction to get a point across? Absolutely. Should you be yelling "I'm gonna rape your mother!" over voice comms to other players in a video game? No.
With that tidbit out of the way, the issue that many have taken with Rosenberg's comments are not solely because they're choosing sexual assault as a primary factor in the origin story for this character. It is the portrayal of Lara Croft as someone who needs "protecting" by the player (who Rosenberg obviously believes are only male), because without the way he's telling the story "people wouldn't connect with the character" - those quotes are paraphrased, but basically out of his mouth.
At the end of the day, Rosenberg demonstrates how vastly out of touch he is with the actual gaming market, while all the straight white men (precisely who Rosenberg believes are the sole market for this game) stand up and say "Well I don't see anything wrong with this!"
For a fantastic recent breakdown of the issue, take a look at this post:
http://fozmeadows.wordpress.com/2012/06/11/rape-culture-in-gaming/-
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Men *are* taken into account. Removing rape culture isn't just about making things better for women, it's about making things better for everybody. The statement that "men get raped too!" is not really a counter-argument to supporting awareness and removal of rape culture, but merely supports that cause because those men who are being raped are statistically most likely to be raped by other men, who have likely been swept up in whatever rape culture surrounds them.
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I'm not saying that men getting raped is a counter-argument. The author is firmly against rape culture (which I'm not debating that it's bad), but champions it by saying how harmful it is to women while neglecting the very real occurrences of men getting raped.
While I don't want to bat numbers and won't ask for sources, but stats that I've been privy to have shown that it leans heavily towards women raping men when comparing men raping men and women raping men.
Granted, these were numbers from years ago, so maybe they have changed. Regardless, for someone who is against rape culture as whole, it's decidedly pro-woman.
Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's worse for men or women. Having known a man who was raped by a women and subsequently killed himself a few years later makes me slightly critical that the author makes it out like this is only an issue for women.-
I'm saddened that you've been touched personally by this tragedy, but your numbers are way out of whack.
http://thehathorlegacy.com/rape-statistics/
1 in 10 rape victims are male, and of those, under 10% are perpetrated by women.
The elephant in the room here of course is that these are reported or tracked rape statistics, which of course has the possibility to skew numbers. However, even taking that into account, I find it hard to imagine that unreported accounts would swing those numbers to be even or anywhere near your scenario of "heavily towards women raping men".
So, while I will concur that the article may feel pro-woman, it is important to understand that women are impacted in 90% of rape cases, and so they are vastly more at risk in a rape culture than men.-
Actually, my numbers would be out of whack because it was just the stats from provincial numbers for Manitoba, and even then years out of date.
I never would imply that women aren't the majority affected, I just think the author should have mentioned that it goes both ways. The author is basically accusing men of promoting this rape culture against women when that's not true.
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It's part of rape culture, because they're on the other side of that same coin. The side where it's impossible to get raped, so nothing is rape, and if you think it is, there's something wrong with you. If an authority figure coerces you to have sex with her and she's hot, what possible reason could you have to not be ok with that? The victims pain gets blamed rather than the act itself. if it's impossible, it's impossible to talk about. If it's not talked about, it never comes up. It's set so deep that some men I've met in support groups, rather then asking themselves if they had been raped or not, ask themselves if they are men, or not.
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"If an authority figure coerces you to have sex with her and she's hot, what possible reason could you have to not be ok with that?"
My reason is that I'm not single and I wouldn't cheat on my girlfriend. I don't care how attractive she is.
I mention above that I knew a man who was raped by a woman. She was pregnant with his child, he lived with them for a short time to try to provide for his child, was abused more and killed himself because he thought that since he couldn't protect himself, how could he protect his child.
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Explain to me how the player is "protecting" Lara. Unless I'm badly mistaken, the player directly controls Lara, not someone else protecting Lara. From this perspective, she would be protecting herself, guided by the unseen hands of fate, God, or I don't know, maybe her own instincts? And surviving these challenges eventually makes her into the badass who shoots dinosaurs and tigers in the face.
I don't think anyone has a right to criticize someone for telling a story, even if some people have a hard time stomaching the elements of that story. I think the idea of something like Fifty Shades of Grey is beyond stupid, but I'm not going to tell the author to stop writing it, or tell him what he should or shouldn't write. If he wants to write about nipple clamps and shit and make a giant pile of money while doing it, rock the fuck on, I say. Same goes for this. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be allowed to take this approach.-
In terms of "protecting Lara" - these were Rosenberg's words, not mine, and part of the reason for the backlash against his comments. The gist of his comments were that because people wouldn't connect with a female character, that they would change her character so you felt you needed to protect her. Basically, all kinds of fail in his logic.
I'm in total agreement with you about how someone tells a story, and as I said before, this issue (for me) is not about using rape as a plot point. The issue is the complete and utter pandering to strictly a male audience that Rosenberg is doing with his comments about "protecting" and the inability to connect with a female character.
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I'm still not seeing your point or the point of the blog at the end for that matter. I think dubweasel put it very well and there is no intrinsic problem with the player wanting to feel that they should protect the character from an assault, unless your argument is simply that it's not appropriate for this character. At the same time, the entire game is about protecting the character from other human characters who are trying to kill her for probably no good reason, and then the character promptly returns the favor with much more cruelty. For some reason there's no backlash about this point which in turn invalidates the first. If there's a rape culture in gaming, then there is certainly a murder culture there too which should probably be dealt with first. Or is this whole issue just a disguise for the rampant and empty verbal abuse that occurs in gaming?
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You're making far too many assumptions to back up your point, and none of the footage I saw in any way appeared to trivialize sexual assault (or in fact even normal video game violence - feeling the actual impact of violent acts seems to be something they're interested in exploring).
You appear to have let someone else make your opinion up for you when in reality there's not enough data to know whether there would have been an issue in the first place (and in fact, the available evidence suggests otherwise). The threat of sexual assault (and that's all that was shown, not an actual act, but a response to the threat of one) would be a very real possibility if a similar scenario played out in real life; to ignore that in game is quite frankly infantile.
His comments regarding "protecting" the character are similarly out of context in your argument. Look at what they actually showed and it's clear he meant it in the sense of giving the character (and by proxy player) license/justification to use force of their own, while not going for the normal consequence-free cartoon violence most video games do. -
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The Bioware school of character design.
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Wait I am confused, are people upset because they said rapists are okay to kill, like Nazis and zombies? Because I would agree with that.
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Jeez... WTF... just let them make the game. I hope they don't change anything because of this bullshit. This is one of the things I hate about big budget AAA titles.. they get so much attention that developers feel they have to meet the expectations and avoid offending every single concerned group in the world.
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My thoughts exactly - why treat this differently than the rest of the entertainment industry? Its a plot in a story, so what's the deal? There's a lot of rape and rape allusions in quite a few of the mainstream tv series - heck game of thrones is full of it.
And the argument 'games are different because they're interactive' would only hold if you as a player were to be able to choose rape as a proper action.
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Press A for RAPE
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I've been watching that 'tropes vs women' thing and i think part of the problem isn't that there is a threat of rape. Rape happens. Its fucking shit, and yes, its an easy excuse to make lara a killer.
The problem is that its ALWAYS rape. Its such the lowest common denominator for 'trauma to a woman'. We know Nathan Drake's origin story, and it basically boils down to 'FUCK I WANT THIS TREASURE IM GONNA FUCKIN HOT SOME FOOLS' and naughty dog made that character (written by a woman funny enough) fucking LOVEABLE even tho his drive was pure fucking greed.
Nathan Drake is a sexy white male hero, and we dont have to justify him doing the shit he does. He does it and hes fucking awesome.
I think if they wanted to break the mold without falling into damsel in distress, but gets out of it tropes, they could have just fucking had her get into tomb raiding some other way. She could have been a graduate student who learned just how much fuckin cash was out there and decided she wanted it for herself not for some museum. It would have been painfully close to orphan nathan drake wanting to make it big, but it wouldn't have been the same shit you always see. Lara didn't have to be a sweet normal lady forced into the situation, she could have just been a greedy DICK, with some dimension.
:: braces for the rage ::-
No you're right. My issue is devs wasting so much time on dumb shit like social issues in their games when it adds nothing at all. Other than the stir the pot, which people won't give a shit about 2 months down the road.
How about worrying about your gameplay designs instead?-
yeah fuck narrative and stories in games... derp
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No one gives a fuck.
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clearly they do
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Yeah no one likes Planescape: Torment or wanted to support Doublefine's adventure game kickstarter
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We know Nathan Drake's origin story, and it basically boils down to 'FUCK I WANT THIS TREASURE IM GONNA FUCKIN HOT SOME FOOLS' and naughty dog made that character (written by a woman funny enough) fucking LOVEABLE even tho his drive was pure fucking greed.
I haven't played Uncharted 2 or 3 yet but my impression was you don't ever really play Nathan's origin story, which kind of speaks to how (un)interesting it is. So I'm not sure that's the most compelling counterpoint.
I mean, the equivalent male situation would be some form of torture scenario which is hardly infrequent in movies (recent Batman and Bond movies come to mind with their pseudo origin stories).-
No, the equivalent male situation would be to get menaced by rape.
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Yep, my main concern was that using rape in this context is lazy and stupid, which is pretty bad when it's also something that can be really hard for someone to watch. And doesn't really ever work in a cathartic way, either.
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I hope there's an achievement for counter-thrusting.
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How about bringing in today's economic markets into God of War?
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I want all of 3 seconds of 'story' between jumping puzzles in a Tomb Raider game. Outfits? Fine. New locales? Great. But I don't need or want Lara to seem 'more real' or 'more complex' or 'grounded in reality'. She's an icon, like Mario. Don't weigh her down with too much plot.
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I don't think trying to force a narrative where it might not belong may be the best choice either. We'll see I guess, it could be pulled off incredibly well too
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Uh, if I touched a female co-worker at my job like that "savage" did, it would be considered sexual assault. I was not personally offended by the scene but the guys at CD need to wake up and acceot responsibility for what they are portraying. It was not a rape, but it was a sexual assault.
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What's funny (to me at least) is when they first showcased the new Lara Croft render (close up of a dirt speckled traumatic face), my first comment was, "wow, she looks like a rape victim."
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I wish game devs would just ONCE say "Hey, you don't like it? Don't buy it!"
Hmm, young girl roaming tombs and jungles in some country - think she isn't going to try to be assaulted in every way by any undesirables in the area? They were going for gritty realism and got it right. Fuck the haters. -
The problem in my eyes is not that the scene is in the game. My problem is that this moron of Executive Producer and Marketing thought it was a great idea to put it in the trailer and trying to sell it... really? That has to be the dumbest thing ever. Case and point Heavy Rain there is a part where Madison can caught by the old guy in the house she was snooping around. Creepiest part of the game when I played through it and that was not in any of the trailers. Girl of the Dragon Tattoo... goes past "attempted rape". The scene is not in any of the trailers or talked about in the marketing for movie(I watched the Swedish version so I don't know yet about American). My point is that having scene is not the problem , the problem is when you are using the scene as a means to sell the game. Your showing this attempted rape as one of the "Cool parts" of game... NO... that shit ain't cool. I damn sure don't want it sold to me as some kind of "protection" fantasy. This Rosenbrg guy and the Marketing people need to fired, this was great way to destroy what was once good buzz for a great game... those damn morons.
