Diablo 3 online requirement to prevent hacks
Diablo 3 game director Jay Wilson talks about the hacks that led to an always-on requirement for Diablo 3, and shrugged off concerns that some players may not have an internet connection.
Blizzard's decision to require a constant connection to play Diablo III understandably upset some pockets of the Internet. However, the company is sticking to its decision, saying that it will prevent the extensive hacking of Diablo 2.
Wilson cites two problems with an offline mode, one of which is the ease of cheating and hacks. "Essentially we would have to put our server architecture onto the client so that it can run its own personal server," director Jay Wilson told PC Gamer at Gamescom. "Doing that essentially is one of the reasons why Diablo 2 was a much easier game to hack than obviously any other game you'd mention and so it's what led to extensive cheating and item dupes and things like that." He says the community was vocal about fixing those cheats, and the team is "not really going to be able to do better than Diablo 2" without an online requirement.
The item duplication in Diablo 2 seems to be of particular concern to Blizzard, most likely because of its new real money auction house. Selling in-game items for actual money is only viable if those items are rare through the game systems themselves, so any duplication glitch would completely break the auction house economy.
The other problem is, basically, that Blizzard wants to encourage online play, which they see as the "right" way to play the game. "So for us we've always viewed it as an online game - the game's not really being played right if it's not online, so when we have that specific question of why are we allowing it? Because that's the best experience, why would you want it any other way?"
Wilson also responded fairly bluntly to users who may have an unstable internet connection. "I mean, in this day and age the notion that there's this a whole vast majority of players out there that don’t have online connectivity - this doesn’t really fly any more." He points out that his hotel alone has nine public wi-fi networks. "So the notion that there's just tons and tons of people out there that aren't connected - I don't think is really accurate.”
Finally, Wilson tops off his response with some light snark. "An online experience is what we want to provide for this game," he said. "Every choice you make is going to omit some part of the audience. Some people don't like fantasy games, so should we have not made Diablo a fantasy game, because some people don't like that? Some people don't like barbarians. Should we not have put a barbarian in the game because some people don't like it?"
Blunt responses aside, his concerns over the item duplication echo what we had previously heard when online technologies VP Robert Bridenbecker expressed surprise at the reaction to the online requirement. Item duplication seems to be one of Blizzard's major concerns, and that's amplified by the new auction house, so it's unlikely this decision will be overturned anytime soon.
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Steve Watts posted a new article, Diablo 3 online requirement to prevent hacks.
Diablo 3 game director Jay Wilson talks about the hacks that led to an always-on requirement for Diablo 3, and shrugged off concerns that some players may not have an internet connection.-
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You're not understanding...
The problem is all the code that actually CREATES items has to be on your local machine if you have offline play. If you have access to that code you have access to the same code that sits on the server which makes it dramatically easier to figure out how to exploit it.
In Diablo 3 noone can see that code because it never touches their machine. It can not be disassembled to figure out the exploits.
By keeping that part of the code from ever leaving their servers they prevent the spread of the knowledge which LEADS to the creation of those exploits. -
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In reference to Garnett's point from that WC ep a couple weeks back - Can it ruin the game's economy any more than having an actual real-money auction house where people can just toss a ten-spot at a purple drop item or something? Seems to me they might want to worry more about that and less about hacks.
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Ubisoft always online system doesn't give ANY added features and benefits to the game, but battle.net does.
And this is a multiplayer game, its ok here because you want to be connected anyway. But Ubi uses it on games that only have single player too, and thats one of the points that its wrong in the system.
Another bad thing its that the DRM doesn't have any kind of Dissconection tolerance, 1 sec without connecting and you are screwed. And im sure Blizz won't make that mistake.
Anyway, beeing online isn't an issue for me, if it isn't just a way to prevent piracy.
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We're also talking completely different eras here.
Both Diablo 2 and Unreal Tournament were released in a time where high speed internet was largely restricted to universities, and the best that was available at the consumer level was 128kbps ISDN. Most people were sitting on a 28.8 dialup connection. High speed internet was sitting at ~5% market penetration in the US, iirc.
That.. is not the case now. By a long shot. Now we're looking at 75-80%+ market penetration/share for broadband in the US.-
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Considering you can barely complete the hardest difficulty solo, and can't see any of the newest content unless you're on BNet, I really have to disagree with you. In any case, Blizzard are the ones making the decisions here, data or not. They want a controlled environment, and that's not possible if they allow offline play.
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Lots of people say that only the minority played single player only, but out of all my friends and family who played Diablo II (about 10-15 people so not a huge sample) I was the only person to play online. I would be interested if there was any way to find out real percentages, but I doubt its possible.
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It's not an advantage for you. They don't seem to be pitching it as an advantage for you either. Preventing hacks, and save game editing will make the game last longer though. Also, due to the RMT AH, they really can't afford any other option, if they want to ensure everyone has access to it. You may not agree with it, so don't buy it, if it's so terrible.
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I'm ok with this. I don't really like it, but it's their product that has to support their bottom line and the are being super-transparent about what they are doing.
I'd be mad if they tricked me on the DRM into buying something I didn't want Ubisoft but this is honest. Annoying, perhaps, but honest. -
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There is almost no point to Diablo if you hack items. Just like cheating in every other game the challenge and the drive is completely gone. "What are you doing?" "I Killed Diablo again!" "He drop anything good?" "I already have the best shit in the game. I'm doing it just because I can. Hmmm I'm bored because there is no challenge and the items drops are worthless to me. Maybe I'll ruin a game with people playing cooperatively having fun."
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For the sake of arguement, let's say it doesn't. Let's also say that this, in effect, allows people to have complete access to their codes, hacks, dupes . . . in private mode. So, given this, how does having an off-lin" mode affect the on-line WoW mode? The answer, the core of our assumption, is that it doesn't.
Now, on the other side, lets say it has some kind of catastrophic effect, and that it leads to the downfall of WoW. How has keeping the clients on-line protected the game? It hasn't, by the definition of our stance.
So, with these two scenarios in mind, how is keeping single player diablo 3 on-line preventing single-player abuse? Would keeping online characters server side and allowing solo players to play off-line really be catastophic to the on-line experience? Where is the real benefit?-
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If you want to get *really* fancy Blizzard could even make it such that your hard drive never even has CLIENT code.
To play single player you naturally have to have the executable on your machine. Because Diablo 3 requires an internet connection it'd be quite possible for that executable to be incomplete. Every time you connect to b.net you'd download a new exe, or a large chunk of a new exe. That exe would exist only in protected memory and be both scrambled and unique per user per game session.
Given enough data points it could eventually be deciphered but Blizzard could then just flip a few bits and make it completely and totally different. It's pretty hard to reverse engineer network packets when they are different every time you play.
Of course none of that matters if your assertion of "offline server support does not impact online servers", but that's simply not true. =P-
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sorry, I mean, I'm not an MMO architect but it obviously can't be that simple (in my defense multiple people have posted in these D3 threads with solutions like that saying it obviously can be done that way). You're reducing a number of incredibly complex distributed systems to a couple sentences.
The most obvious constraint I see there is how much load that puts on the servers and connections between machines. The more stuff you have to transit, compute on the server, then transmit back the more there is to keep in synchronized and the more latency is introduced. In this case Blizzard is obviously acutely aware of both ends of the spectrum for security (D2 vs WoW) and they know which one works and why. There's probably some big blog post somewhere on this subject by someone who's actually worked on this stuff though.-
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It's just their flat out statement that "duping cannot be avoided unless there is no offline" that irks me. It seems to be obvious bullshit. If they'd come out and say "Because we don't want to put in the work to prevent it", I might be OK with it.
Why even argue architecture if the proof is in the numbers? Compare the hack quality and frequency of always on games like MMOs to those without.-
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You fail to mention that private/hacked WoW servers are NOT running Blizzard code. That's a pretty fucking important detail in this argument. Either way, it's not just the lack of access to code (compiled or not) that is preventing hacks. By having an online only system, they can track everything that happens, and IF someone makes a hack, and they find out, they can undo the damage usually. It's a closed system that gives them the control back.
There's also the problem that I'm sure everyone has ran into where you start an offline character, and your buddy is like "Hey come play with us on BNet!" and you can't bring your character. That's pretty game breaking. This also eliminates that.
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The problem is that its really hard to make an offline mode and make it so it doesn't affect the online mode in any way, as was proven in diablo 2.
Often if a hack can be used in single player, the step to making it work in online is a small one, and sometimes it isn't even necessary to change anything.
I can't believe you have forgotten about the Diablo 2 Maphack. It worked in offline and online without modifying anything.
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My understanding is that WoW trusts client position updates by default. This means you can speed hack and teleport hack with ease. However the irregularities will be detected, investigated, and a harsh punishment will be handed out. Thus even though users still *can* speed hack they don't, because who wants to lose a character with hundreds (if not thousands) of hours played.
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It would, but I understand their logic. Once you start getting real money involved in these types of things, you kinda need to start adding in restrictions. You also need to start having companies bully ahead with things like this.
Also, people will complain about everything. Doesn't matter what it is. So Blizzard is right to just bully ahead with this. If it fails, oh well, they can just shut down the real money auction house and open the game up a bit more. You bet your balls its in one of their contingency plans. :D -
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"I mean, in this day and age the notion that there's this a whole vast majority of players out there that don’t have online connectivity - this doesn’t really fly any more."
Any developer ignorant enough to spout something like this should take a two week vacation to a place with notoriously crappy connectivity (like Australia, where everything's metered, or northern England, where all of the copper wire got ripped out in the World War II days, and the local ISPs don't want to bother re-running copper or fiber), and see what gaming is like.-
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I know they run a business; I just think it's callous of them to disown a large proportion of their potential buyer population, and then further insult them for choosing where they want to live. If Diablo 3 had been announced as an MMO-esque "always online experience", this would have been less of a problem, but instead there's the precedent of playing Diablo 1 offline, and playing Diablo 2 offline (hacks notwithstanding; there are better answers than requiring online all the time).
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I'd argue that the playerbases of SC2 and WOW are not an accurate metric of the Diablo 2 community when all three games appeal to different types of players. There is likely a very large cross-appeal and there are people who have played all three but to say that SC2 community has anything to do with the Diablo 2 community probably does not provide an accurate assessment because they are not actually related by anything other than the developer.
See also: Correlation, how does it work.
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except I wonder what the WoW playerbase is like in those areas, testing those persistent internet connections. or people that are playing CoD on XBL for hours on end.
the persistent internet connections are there. they work well enough. people just want things their way no matter what.
people that cry about their internet connections should have a client that shows their online activity, and then speedtest/pingtests to back it up.
blizzard and ubi are calling people's bluffs. if things are this bad, as you assert, it's time for people to give empirical information to refute it. so far, all we have is this anecdotal bullshit. the empirical information shows that people are increasingly online, all the time, on multiple devices. not world war 2 QQ crap.-
Is this enough backup? http://chattypics.com/viewer.php?file=CaptureJPG_xwa62v95kv.jpg
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i really hope the new inferno mode eliminates the "need" for a map-hack. it was only really good for baal, meph, countess etc. runs to increase speed of finding the bosses. i hope there's like a static item or monster level for the entire difficulty so you can just MF by running through the whole game without really needing to know where to go as to increase your MF potential.
this is assuming someone even finds a way to mh in d3-
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That "flattened" difficulty will mean, Blizzard hopes, that players revisit the entire world of Diablo III seeking bigger and bolder challenges, not just go on "Mephisto runs" or fight a specific breed of minion in search of experience points and sweet loot drops.
"We do expect there to be a certain amount of... runs to get items, but we wanted players to do it over a lot more content," Wilson said. "We're trying to make sure that there's a lot more opportunities for players to see a lot more variety." Wilson added that if player behavior does eventually lead to tightly focused runs in Diablo III, the developer may make adjustments for that by encouraging (and rewarding) players for having more diverse replays.
http://kotaku.com/5831680/diablo-iii-just-got-harder-than-hell-with-new-inferno-difficulty
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For every person that refuses to play D3 because it's online-only, there is a player that didn't play, or stopped playing D2, because of people exploiting the game. Myself included. This anti-hacking stance that Blizzard is taking will likely draw in many casual players. I really don't think they will lose any sales because of this decision.
As for people who "just want to cheat," do you really think that the developers put years into a game, tweaking, balancing, and perfecting everything, so that you can tear it apart, break the balance, and not even fully appreciate or experience the game as intended? No, they'd probably prefer that you didn't play their game at all. I know I do. I would think that, from the developers' point-of-view, that might even be worse than piracy.-
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I'm not necessarily talking about casual gamers, just casual Diablo players. Given the state of the metagame after a couple years, it was pretty discouraging at times trying to be a casual player, which is probably the reason that I never took it more seriously, and eventually stopped playing it altogether.
And, I'm here reading about it before I buy it, aren't I? Not that it matters. That's not the point.
How many casual gamers buy a game like this in the first week? month? year? WoW subscribers rose steadily for several years even though the most hardcore fans bought it at launch.
If ,after 4 years, the servers were overrun with hackers, duped items, and whatever else, how likely would it have been that casuals kept jumping on the bandwagon?
They bought it because they finally tried the game at their friend's place, and had a good time, not because their friend can bot 10 MF runs in an hour. Jumping into a metagame, and a community like that is intimidating.-
Comparing WoW is bad as their servers heavily trust the client. Speed hacks, teleport hacks and numerous others exist and have since the beginning. What helps Blizz there is they ban the account boom you have to buy another.
In D2 you could keep creating battle.net accounts so they couldn't stop it. If D2 had a single b.net account it would be more on par with WoW.
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I think there's more people talking about people that saying aren't going to buy it than people who are saying aren't going to buy it posting.
Yes the drm doesn't effect me and I'm definitely going to be playing it. I've been waiting too long for it not to.
But should that stop me from voicing my displeasure at news that they're turning away business they traditionally catered to? Should I be happy that they are making their game with less options and more restrictive? -
Well I had some huge rant typed out but I am just waiting for Deus Ex to unlock and I suspect it's going to be a far more original and entertaining game so I don't feel like trying.
So I have only one question: What was wrong with their previous system where you had a hardcore character online only or just enjoyed the game / cheat / whatever the fuck you wanted to do with your own game offline?
I mean I am sure it will be a fantastic game and I will probably buy it but don't feed us some line of bullshit; most of us are adults. You want to control the consumer, plain and simple, so if you cant' say that or won't just don't say anything; we'd have a lot more respect for you.
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So I have only one question: What was wrong with their previous system where you had a hardcore character online only or just enjoyed the game / cheat / whatever the fuck you wanted to do with your own game offline?
The problem was the online economy was completely fucked by hacks and dupes and significantly degraded the overall experience. Compare that to the economy of other always online games (ie MMOs). The need for this is even greater with the presence of the real money auction house.-
Again, they can run that system with your ONLINE character and let you do what you want offline (that would exclude the "Blizzard take a cut of the sales" market place of course).
So there is no excuse for letting people do what they want with their bought product; modding, hacking, whatever. See online = still the same, offline = do what you want.
I am fine with what they want to do, just A> Don't call us stupid, and B> Give us some options if we don't want to be online 24/7 or have lives outside our local internet connections.-
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Ugggh... please Deus Ex, unlock soon.
If your online character can get compromised in D2 then it's the same in D3. There is no difference. How you guys buy this crap is unreal to me. The only thing that's changed is Blizzard got smarter with security. Both options still work only Blizzard doesn't give you that opportunity now.-
Sigh...obviously you have no idea what you're trolling about.
The item auction in D3 will be similar to the AH in WoW, unhackable. If D3 had an offline mode you'd get some clown creating an app that could duplicate items rendering both of D3's AH's (which are a very cool addition) pointless.
I agree with Jay Wilson when he said the whole connectivity issue just doesn't fly these days, I'm totally behind that. I actually PREFER D3 to use Battle.net and be online all the time.
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Hum first of all the offline character was just that offline had no connection to the online servers in anyway therefore didn't result in any hacking that effected online through battle net. This is our problem they gave us the option last time to play the game totally offline and they have now taken it away.
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http://www.shacknews.com/chatty?id=26554030#itemanchor_26554030
This link is worth reposting, also Diablo 2 was 11 years ago, the world is FAR better connected now. So hush, they don't HAVE to give you anything, you aren't ENTITLED to anything.
Online is the way forward.
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That part does make sense I will grant you. That said for a lot of people though they don't care about having an online character they just want to play the game all on their own like they did the original. As long as the game though makes it so when you start a game it doesn't require you to jump trhough a lot of hoops to keep people from joining in on you I will be fine with it.
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you are still incorrectly assuming they are developing this for a strictly single player experience?
when will the lightbulb go on? the game has evolved - like all the other games you play while online 24/7. dragon age 1 was syncing my profile to the internets as I was killing stuff. totally single player experience, but they know damn well we're all online all the time.
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Blizzard should have just pulled a Valve.
Add a "Play Offline" button, but leave it largely broken, unimplemented, or have some asinine requirement like you have to be online to enable offline mode requirement for about five years. Watch as no one notices for except for a few people, who get ridiculed into silence by the internet masses.
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