Doom 4's 'identity crisis' cause for delay
Doom 4 now has the full focus of id Software, following the project restarting earlier this year.
id Software started on Doom 4 a long, long time ago. But it was deemed unexciting and the studio decided to start over from scratch.
So what was so wrong with Doom 4 that it had to go back to the drawing board? Studio director Tim Willits says it wasn't just a matter of a single, easily fixable problem. "Every game has a soul. Every game has a spirit. When you played Rage, you got the spirit. And [Doom] did not have the spirit, it did not have the soul, it didn't have a personality," he said. "It had a bit of schizophrenia, a little bit of an identity crisis."
Willits told IGN that id has now "cut distractions out" for the restarted project. "We focused everybody. All hands on deck," he said. "If you have everyone marching to the same drummer, you can get places."
Of course, that laser-focus also means that other franchises have been put on the back burner for the time being. Willits noted that the Quake brand is "critically important" to the studio, and that they're "not going to forget about it." Willits also recently noted that Rage isn't dead, and in this interview noted that he might be open to licensing if a developer has a strong concept. "We don't have anyone right now, but that's a possibility."
Between juggling those three franchises, though, id doesn't have much room for trying new things in the immediate future. "I know we're not going to do another new IP," Willits said.
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replySteve Watts posted a new article, Doom 4's 'identity crisis' cause for delay.
Doom 4 now has the full focus of id Software, following the project restarting earlier this year.-
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Rage was a binch of FPS campaign sections duct-taped together with an ersatz Fallout 3 RPG inventory and quest system, a quasi-open hub world system, and a driving mechanic that Willits insisted (for YEARS; since at least 2008) would be more engaging than multiplayer competitive FPS. Oh, and it had a co-op add-on.
Rage didn't have vision. It had pentafocals.-
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If it went the route of the ROTT reboot...I'd probably buy multiple copies of it (one for me...then a few others for people I know because people should own ROTT!).
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That meant to say because people should own a DOOM4 worthy of the name with fast paced combat...for some reason I just typed in ROTT which is its own fun thing.
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I pretty much agree with what Carmack said at Quakecon. The are a legacy company and their legacy is legitimizing the FPS genre.
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No, but there are numerous devs who don't have blockbuster releases and still have decent profits. Id needs to transform into that kind of developer. Bethesda's standing in the way of that.
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Agreed. Id has been putting out solid but dull product for awhile now. They need some creative spark over there.
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Yeah, even though Bethesda totally crap on their own game designs and malign the RPG genre with their cheapo fast-food offerings like Skyrim and even Oblivion, at least they're likely holding id to a higher standard. Now if only someone would hold Bethesda to a higher standard, instead of half-assing cashouts with every new release, while giving the middle finger to the PC crowd unless they think they really can't surmount the criticism - there wouldn't even have been a 4gb memory patch for PC without it, and Todd is a lame console fanboy who yearns to push his shit interests on others while vindictively making sure that those who don't play his was don't get their way - as with the god-awful console UI's that are completely incompetent on PC.
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Indeed
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That would be good, but I was thinking more of Bethesda suggesting that Id make Skyrim in the Doom universe, or any other universe, for that matter. Id is historically great at making shooters, and the shooter part of Rage was the best part, so they should keep making games that emphasize that mechanic, and not RPG elements, third-person arcade driving, or mini-games.
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After games like Rage and Blink I think it was in their interest to take a closer look at what their studios are doing.
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Three if you count the Quake 3 Team Arena expansion released in December 2000, which was also MEH.
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shit archvile, 2000 was not even this millennium http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium#Viewpoint_1:_x001.E2.80.93y000
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not anymore, they aren't independent. I was hoping for Quake 5 with RA5/CTF out of the box to ignite the DM scene and let people have some competitive fun. I would try to capture the MOBA momentum by hitting them upside the head with OSP and CPMA.
they cone weaved around trying to test "innovation" and that introduced scope creep and they royally fucked up.
I was hoping for a focused product at a competitive price - people know it's not a everything+the kitchen sink game. It carries the Quake title, and would be on steam, and fully integrated. physx support, insane FOV/FSAA/etc support, and fully moddable. in my opinion, that would be a hit.
but timing is everything, and I would have seen that released right at the end of the school year. with no real MP shooters around, it would rock folks' face off until BF4 shows up. but then the mods would have kicked in by then, and we'd have the fun weird shit like Q3 football and such rebooted in Q5. :D -
I think it's time for this again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1ZtBCpo0eU
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Only if they're willing to take some SERIOUS chances.
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Not sure. I do know if they released a new Quakeworld (or new Quake) that was fast and fun with powerful weapons...I'd buy it and then buy copies for people I know...if they did a new DOOM game that recaptured all the speed and intensity and fun of the original two DOOMs I'd buy that in a heartbeat and buy copies for friends because again...FUCKING DOOM!
But I don't know if those could sell huge numbers. I *do* think they could be profitable...but I think id is convinced that they must be AAA developers and must be doing whatever the "in thing" happens to be.-
Well sure, now that they have overlords telling them what they need to do.
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No. They have made it clear they learned nothing from Rage, by saying it had the same 'soul' as their other games despite everyone else saying it was boring/incomplete, etc.
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That sounds more like Willits sounding like he learned nothing from Rage. Not the first time Willits has had to be corrected by the outside world; I remember how hard he was flogging the 360 controller for Rage, so much so that many gamers were afraid that they were abandoning keyboard and mouse. After over a year of silence, he moved the mouse around for 10 seconds at the QuakeCon 2009 Rage demo, which brought out a rush of cheering from the audience.
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any links to this 'flogging'? you know, for schadenfreude?
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Nope.
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Nope they seem like a dev past its prime.
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DOOM 2 is the last id game I had fun with. Guess I don't consider them a developer to pay attention to anymore, despite Carmack's prowess. If they can create a DOOM 1/2 type experience, with the pumping music and chaotic gameplay, and cool looking enemies instead of the DOOM 3 scared-to-be-bold-just-be-bland kind of washed out enemy designs, I'll be jumping in. DOOM 3 just sucked on almost every level, though, and should not even be regarded as part of the same series titled DOOM as D 1/2.
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you didn't like any of the quakes?
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Though I still hated Warcraft 3's 3D look. I prefer a 2D RTS over a 3D one even today, because 2D just allows unlimited artistic detail, at the sacrifice not having unlimited degrees of frame drawing. But in an RTS, and lots of other games for that matter, that's a very minor issue. Still playing as many 2D games today as 3D ones, like many people.
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You liked Doom 2 but complain about early 3d games like Quake looking like blocky garbage? The only thing not blocky would be the sprites, but in the case of sprites, when you kill a dude you get to stare at his crotch every time you run by because that's the only death sprite available.
Quake's color scheme was pretty boring, but Doom isn't exactly brimming with color.
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The front page itself at the top has the actual cover art and old logo.
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They copied the gravity gun for that Doom 3 expansion pack, didn't they?
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No, independent invention of the same thing.
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It's worrying how proud Willits seems to be of Rage. In the other article he twice said he was proud of it and now he's saying it had spirit. Personally I think he should be saying, "Rage was terrible and we need to do better". If they don't recognise the flaws in Rage the next game will end up equally bad.
The best way to improve their games would probably be to get rid of Willits. He was lead designer on Doom 3 and creative director on Rage and both games were pretty dreadful. They need somebody who can make a fun game. Romero would probably be a good option.-
At least he isn't a producer anymore; that's the position where he seemed to do the most damage. He was okay as executive producer of Doom 3; even though a lot of people derided it for monster closets and archaic gameplay architecture, that game at least knew what it wanted to be. Rage was a mess that felt like it was designed in a bubble, with a design document that hadn't been changed since 2008.
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So what do you want to see in Doom 4? I see a lot of people hating, but nobody offering solutions.
I've only ever played Doom 3, and I think CoD is the absolute worst a singleplayer game can get. As such I expect I have differing opinions from the classic Doom fans.
What would make me day one buy Doom 4 is:
- Not 100% linear
- Upgrade system lite
- Kickass atmosphere on the level of Metro, STALKER
- A superfluous sexy lady on the box cover-
Open world if it's Hell on Earth themed.
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Random thoughts:
Doom 4: hell on earth
Upon walking through the last portal in hell you find yourself in the middle of a corn field... Smoke billowing on the horizon, earth's towering cities under attack by the spawn of hell.
Now spend the next 20 hours moving through a variety of Earth's major cities mopping up hellspawn. As you clear each area you must choose where to go next, but you wont be able to make it everywhere. Will you save NYC, only to lose Paris... London or LA? Eventually battling your way back to some other level of hell... Yada yada...
It would be awesome if it was a co op game, akin to L4D, mixed in with some kind of global teamwork, with dynamic backgrounds that would link between the thousands of games being played. If x number of people die in an area of a zone or city, everyone sees a major catastrophic event occur way off in the distance...
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Borderlands meets Doom2. Coop, gunloot, tons of demons to mow down
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Helloooooooo...
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I admit this is probably a terrible idea that wouldn't be in the spirit of the originals -- but maybe it'd work. What if... it were Hell on Earth and a largely open world / FPS metroidvania. You wander the fucked up Earth and your 'missions' are to destroy various demon infestations and close Hell portals and as you did this you somehow acquired new abilities that opened up new sections of the map.
I admit this isn't in the spirit of the originals in the way Serious Sam and Painkiller are, but I honestly don't want more of that. I also don't want it to be Call of Duty or Half Life, though.-
I'm all for a Metroid Prime style DOOM4 single player. Combine that with the fast run and gun action of DOOM and I think it'd be an interesting direction to go in. They could even keep key cards as those could unlock some of the sets of doors.
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The multiplayer should harken back to DOOM and DOOM2 in terms of speed and the power of the weapons with some nods to Quake. They should either go balls to the walls fast in terms of running speed with some movement tricks thrown in...or go all out with air movement QW style where you can gain insane speed...or both. It needs to be fucking fast as hell. The weapons need to do serious damage...there's a trend with deathmatch games where weapons have managed to get weaker and weaker with each iteration and generation...I think a new DOOM needs to have a Rocket that can one shot a newly spawned player with its splash damage if you nail a close enough shot and do a fair bit of damage if you're decently close...perhaps use the old Q1/Q2 splash damage calculations as those gave for a more satisfying rocket splash IMHO (I believe it was something like (damage-(distance*0.5)) which wasn't the most intuitive method or mathematically sensible but it worked very well and it felt good...the Q3 method (I can't even remember the formula of the top of my head but it was something like damage*(1-(distance/radius)) or something) was never as satisfying even though it was perhaps more mathematically "correct"). I want shotguns that do a great deal of damage and armor that's worthwhile and maps that reward proper item control and strategy. I want id to be to competitive FPS games what Blizzard is to competitive RTS or Capcom is to competitive fighting games...and id used to be that. I know there are people who are like "well one deathmatch is the same as any deathmatch I don't understand...its all the same huurrrrrr" and those people should bludgeon themselves to death with a hammer. ;p
For single player I'd personally go a different route...do a complete reboot again...DOOM3 didn't happen...do it Metroid Prime style. Have a large base to explore that links to some other varied bases...have the player slowly open up more areas through the collection of key cards (in the same way that new weapons opened doors in MP), new weapons (some barriers you might need a Rocket to get through), and through other means (like getting power up in running in an area so that you can get doors to open). If we're going back to Mars, have the player occasionally run into groups of fellow soldiers from the original invasion force who are pinned down and need help and maybe you can end up with an island of safety in an area if you help them lock it down.
Regardless of anything it needs to be fast and you need to face decent numbers of enemies (like 10-25 or so fairly often, occasionally larger groups but mostly those sorts of packs)...have them varied like in DOOM the original...different patterns...guys who will rush you and melee, guys who will hang back, guys who will do easily avoidable damage but keep you on your toes and some of those guys may be bullet sponges that take a bit of work to take down...lots of weak guys with some stronger dudes. And the only thing keeping you alive will be movement, it needs to be all about mobility and constantly moving, avoiding fire, and killing quickly and efficiently. The combat should be satisfying and all about movement and crowd control. Combat in DOOM (the original and the second) are about as different from CoD as you can get...your mobility kept you alive and you had to constantly be thinking about what enemies you were facing and deal with them all as the situation mandated. DOOM4 SP needs to be about run and gun combat puzzles where you have to think on your feet and react to fluid situations, where cover won't do jack shit because your only cover is hauling your ass so fast that you avoid getting hit.
If they're doing Hell on Earth...maybe go more a Zelda route and have an "overworld" of sorts...and area above an underground base and you have to go in through various access points to do stuff...sort of a hybrid between a Metroid and a Zelda. -
I don't really rate doom 2, doom 1 episode 1 was their best work. I mean I love the shit out of doom 2 with nostalgia in effect but the actual game, from memory the only standout things was the level design being so different to doom 1, and kind of remotely like cities in some small ways.
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I'd agree that E1 was great as hell for single player...I liked E2 and E3 a lot too...I really feel they were all better than DOOM2 and I felt that way at the time. That's not to knock DOOM2, but I just feel that it fell victim to a whole "more of everything" mentality at times.
Now wrt to deathmatch I think DOOM2 may have been slightly better (what with the SSG and all), but DOOM E1 was great too...E1M5 is a fucking joy to DM on, as are many of the other maps. -
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Doom was never like Serious Sam 3, though. I'm always a bit puzzled when people compare the two.
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What I don't want:
- Weapon unlocks or any kind of XP grinding/leveling up
- Iron sights
- Serious Sam style open arena mobs.
- I do not want Doom 1 or 2. We've had them and it's old hat now.
What I do want:
- Dark and gloomy
- Heavy metal soundtrack
- Infrequent, large(ish) groups of enemies.
- Good gunplay and monster design
- A barely there story that ties it all together, that can be expanded upon should the universe prove interesting.
Basically Doom 3 with more monsters that takes itself less seriously.
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I would happily wait for a new Quake\Doom every 5 years if they put that id touch to it.
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