![Microsoft director jumps into 'always-on connection' discussion [update]](https://d1lss44hh2trtw.cloudfront.net/resize?type=webp&url=0&width=1032&sign=hjPf1YK82dV-QT8oL3v_lLzC62zix4hvLjTqBJFhHgY "Microsoft director jumps into 'always-on connection' discussion [update]")
Microsoft director jumps into 'always-on connection' discussion [update]
Adam Orth, creative director at Microsoft's video game division, defended always-on connections on Twitter, saying that "I want every device to be 'always on.'"
Updated with an official comment from Microsoft.
Will the next Xbox require an always-on internet connection to play games? The rumor has recently resurfaced, which has many gamers curious about what direction Microsoft will go in the coming generation.
Adam Orth, creative director at Microsoft's video game division, said on Twitter that "I want every device to be 'always on.'"
"I don't get the drama around having an 'always on' console," Orth said, adding "every device now is 'always on.' That's the world we live in." (Note: His tweets are now "protected" from public view.)
BioWare's Manveer Heir pointed out the recent troubled launches of SimCity and Diablo 3, noting that always-on requirements can be a detriment to the gaming experience. Ubisoft, for example, had to rescind its always-on policy on PC, after the backlash it received. Orth retorted that "electricity goes out too," and that people still buy electronics. "The mobile reception in the area I live in is spotty and unreliable. I will not buy a mobile phone," he joked.
It's important to remember: while Orth's comments are insensitive to gamers with genuine concerns about always-on requirements, they do not necessarily reflect Microsoft as a whole. Orth is responding to the rumors of an always-on Xbox, not confirming that the console will be. Heir also pointed out that the two had gotten "NeoGAFed," referencing the forum that spotlighted Orth's comments in the first place.
"We're good friends and he was busting balls, forgetting it was online and public," he said. However, he does correctly point out that it "doesn't forgive the original sentiment at all."
Update: Microsoft issued the following official statement regarding Orth's comments:
We apologize for the inappropriate comments made by an employee on Twitter yesterday. This person is not a spokesperson for Microsoft, and his personal views do not reflect the customer centric approach we take to our products or how we would communicate directly with our loyal consumers. We are very sorry if this offended anyone, however we have not made any announcements about our product roadmap, and have no further comment on this matter.
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Shacknews
replyAndrew Yoon posted a new article, Microsoft director jumps into 'always-on connection' discussion.
Adam Orth, creative director at Microsoft's video game division, defended always-on connections on Twitter, saying that "I want every device to be 'always on.'"-
That is BS. Electricity is essential to a vacuum cleaner but an internet connection is fully optional for a console.
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It's up to someone else at Microsoft to say something official and quash the rumors... but I feel as though they'll just stay silent, hoping that the public forgets this in time for their pre-E3 unveil event.
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No, he's clearly just joking. There's been rumors of it and he was just messing around with his friend making jokes on Twitter. It's a bit irresponsible but it's kinda stupid how the media is throwing this out of proportion.
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I wouldn't buy a computer that couldn't connect to the internet.
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For me a computer that isn't connected to the internet is a broken computer.
However I understand not everyone has good access to the internet, but I think it is a reasonable assumption that in the future people will be MORE connected and not LESS connected.-
There's that, and there's things like internet outages (which happen more often than power outages), and more importantly, server outages, which do happen, as every company that has tried always-online DRM has proved again and again. I wouldn't wanna lose access to all my games and apps because of a server outage, nor would I want Microsoft to be able to disable all my previously activated games and apps if they so chose (which would be a breeze with always-online).
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People like steam though and that seems to work. Steam does have an offline mode but I bet that steam gets used in offline mode very infrequently compared to online. Steam also doesn't kick you out of games if you have been offline for 3 minutes. But for the most part, people are happy to be always online with their steam accounts.
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The reasons Steam is an "always online" platform is because 1) it's a social aspect as well as, 2) a store.
You can't compare XboxOS and Steam. XboxOS isn't designed around a social aspect, it's designed around an entertainment aspect (Netflix, hulu, etc), however I won't say it doesn't have social aspects because it does. But not to the point that Steam is. Steam is essentially an IM program with games on the side. I have to admit that I use Steam to chat with friends more so than play games. But yes, I have 300 something games on Steam, and they get played.
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I think you are missing the point that a lot of people may use their computer in isolation of the internet. I have a notebook for a reason... so I can do work or watch videos in places when I travel. The internet is not required. Requiring an always on internet connection for a console is like requiring an internet connection to watch my own video files on my notebook.
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Because my expectation personally is to be connected to the internet 24/7 on any computer I own currently and will buy in the future. I am not interested in any computer or computer like device that for any reason won't be connected 24/7
If I were moving and I found out that the house or apartment couldn't get reliable internet I wouldn't move there. I consider being connected all the time as "normal" and if something isn't connected all the time it is "broken"
Yes I understand that not everyone shares this attitude, and not everyone lives someplace where they can get a reliable internet connection so I am stating what I expect, and not what YOU expect.
BUT
I think most people who play games now and in the future are going to be connected and expect to be connected reliably 24/7 regardless of the hardware requiring it or not.
I think a very very very small percent of say shackers would knowingly move someplace where they knew the internet was un available or sketchy. So as time marches on, and it will, and the future becomes the present, people will only be more connected and expect to be always connected. So this will probably become and probably already is a non issue to the majority of people. Yes some people still live in someplace remote and some people will still be deployed in a warzone but that is a small percent of the game customers and it is only going to get smaller, not bigger.-
Being connected 24/7 isn't completely up to you, though. If your isp has an outage, there is stilla lot of shityour computer cscan do. A device that requires a connection is "broken" when it can't connect for whatever reason. Consider the ps3; it CAN be connected 24/7, but I seem to remember their servers being out for quite a while a few years back...
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In the rare occasion my computer isn't connected to the internet I probably don't use it and go do something else.
Also consider you run a business and the numbers you care about say the market you are going after mostly has access to the internet and is becoming more connected, not less connected as time goes on.-
I don't see how numbers showing that people are more connected is any reason to require a connection or how that would benefit the consumer in any way. I am only a consumer so my pov may be biased, but I'm really truing to see it from the other side.
It's rare for my connection to be down, too. I can't remember it happening for more than a few minutes within the last couple of years. Nothing I own is ever inoperable when that happens. Even when I'm browsing the internet. I always have at least a dozen tabs open. Internet goes out for a minute, no big deal. I'll just read what I already have access to. If when I lost connection my computer went into some sort of sleep mode for a few minutes, minor inconvenience. Good time to grab a snack and piss. But it's still an inconvenience, an unnecessary annoyance put on me for being a customer of the wrong company. Next time I build a computer, I would think about trying a different OS. -
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Yeah well, time will tell won't it?
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Drop the pitchforks. The guy who he was tweeting with acknowledges that this was a simple trolling.
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He was having a conversation with someone he knows. That isn't trolling.
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And yet these Tweets show no "conversation": http://i5.minus.com/jF1Mjq5MZmVHd.png
These were when his buddy wasn't even in the picture and replying to him. So while it may be convenient to use the "conversation" excuse for what he said later on, that doesn't excuse or explain away what he said initially.
He made an incredibly stupid move with this, conversation or not. You don't antagonize the public when you are going to want to try selling them a product down the road.-
So he just said that shit to no one for no reason with no context other than to spam the people who follow him?
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It certainly seems as though this all started that way, yes. And then he and his buddy had their conversation.
Neogaf's opening post on this breaks it down nicely in what seems to be the order that things went down. It also includes some other choice selections concerning the guy.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=534951
His excuse was just convenient backtracking and trying to save face. Doesn't seem to have done him any good, however.
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not the, a; it sounds like one of dozens?
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public figure, dont fucking troll
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I much prefer the xbox 360 to the PS3, but if this happens with the durango...all I have to say Sony is going to dominate the next console generation. Didn't sony already state that their console will not require always on connections?
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well, sony said they wont prevent used games....which would require always on connections
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They also explicitly said you'd be able to play offline, IIRC.
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"Oh yes, yes, you can go offline totally. Social is big for us, but we understand there are some people who are anti-social! So if you don't want to connect to anyone else, you can do that." - SCE World Wide Studios President Shuhei Yoshida
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that's not what anti-social means. That's the president? get a dictionary lol
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"...forgetting it was online and public." Do these guys not know what Twitter is?! Yes, I know that an account can be private, but Orth should've been aware that his Twitter account was public. After all, he did probably sign up for Twitter to be able to say things to the entire Internet... right?
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Making jokes about the xbox being always online while forgetting twitter is always online....Is this irony? Either way its hilarious.
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Nice one.
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Up until I saw this I was sceptical of the always on connection rumour as I couldn't believe Microsoft would be that stupid. It seems I was wrong.
With Metro in Windows 8 and now this it appears like Microsoft is trying to destroy its own business. Have they been infiltrated by a saboteur? -
Let's just buy a PS4 and show microsoft what we think of their policies...see if they do these things again. Halo's going from bad to worse anyway
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I'm all for this always-on.
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I'll even go as far and say "I want it" because I know it will help these consoles progress faster.
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Bingo.
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The problem here is that servers go offline from time to time and it's annoying that you have to schedule your game time around a 3rd party for no good reason. It's another (unnecessary) potential point of failure.
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PS4 looks like the way to go. PC for everything, PS4 for console exclusives. I'm a MS fanboy but this is going a bit too far, especially with the creepy Kinect always on scanning the room. Maybe I'll get one when the price drops significantly and then play all the MS exclusives (at a major discount) but no real rush. PS4 looks solid but the Thief bit about it being locked at 30fps is a bit disconcerting. We'll see.
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I'll add Wii U in there as well because I love me some Nintendo.
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LOVE his response.
This is just the way things are. My reception sucks, what can I do? Nothing. I'll get some refund for loss time. This is the perfect answer to a flock of gamers that feel that everything should be scrutinized.
If you don't like it, then.....(you know the rest)
Trust me, if the next Xbox fails to sell because of this point...they will remove it. But Twitting and Emailing and forums and whatnot mean absolutely Zelch.
Guess conversation has to be about something.-
LOVE the way the internet is once again creating a tempest in a teacup.
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Alright, so I've been able to live without the Halo franchise (have 3, didn't finish it, didn't bother with anything after), are there any other exclusives I should care about, because if they want to go the route of always on, I'm going to stick with PC and will buy a PS4 for the early exclusives (Dark Souls was out on console about a year before PC)
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Where do you live? I thought only people traveling in the Arctic used satellite...or used at summer cabins.
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He lives at his summer cabin.
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I'm an hour north of Seattle on Camano Island in a cabin. No Internet things have been set up nearby so I have to use an AT&T mobile hotspot thingy which is egregiously capped at a 5 GB/month. I'm only here for a few more months but it's not all that uncommon to not have Internet if you start getting rural.
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Bam, Summer Cabin.I was right. But ya, cool place regardless as I passed by there a few months ago when hit up Orcas island and the other San Juans.
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I have over 100 customers with it. Most rural areas have dialup and satellite only.
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I had it until 2010 when I finally got DSL...until then it was satellite or dial up at 26.4k. I live in central West Virginia...in a fairly rural area...but its not completely without houses or people.
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At some point perhaps video gaming and rural life don't mix. Sometimes it feels like people bitching about how they can't keep a horse on their property when they live in the city.
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Likewise. Which is weird, because I don't really use my PS3 for much other than Netflix.
Barring some "OMG MUST HAVE" console exclusive I don't think I'll pick up a durango until the 2nd gen is released. -
to be fair, everything we've heard about the PS4 has been official. everything we've heard about Xbox has been rumor.
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yea, i'm looking into selling my 360 currently, dont really feel like giving them anymore money.
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Microsoft just issued a formal statement regarding these tweets. Here it is:
"We apologize for the inappropriate comments made by an employee on Twitter yesterday. This person is not a spokesperson for Microsoft, and his personal views do not reflect the customer centric approach we take to our products or how we would communicate directly with our loyal consumers. We are very sorry if this offended anyone, however we have not made any announcements about our product roadmap, and have no further comment on this matter." -
Reality Check: Everyone will still buy a new xbox because the majority of people are bedazzled by marketing and the name. There will still be a line outside Best Buy, people will have to deal with backorders etc because the masses just don't care about slaps to the face like online-only and over-the-top DRM schemes. I wish they did but they don't.
I will not be buying the new xbox, online or not. As a PC gamer I have always despised Microsoft's direction with the 360 and everything associated with it. You can make fun of me if you want but I do vote with my wallet because I've never purchased a retail 360 or any of its games and not one single regret.
The only good to come out of the 360 for those of us that like a game with options and depth is the proliferation of great indie titles and possibly the as yet to be seen crowd-funded kickstarter games.-
nah, I'm gonna buy a Wii U because I'm a serious gamer.
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Do you read what you post?
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sure, after I post :(
seriously I should be better at posting by now.
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The 360 dominated last gen because they launched a full year ahead of the PS3. Had very little to do with marketing.
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I'm sure better online services, better performance of games (first few yrs) , and lower cost had something to do with it.
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Better performance is debatable, the low cost definitely helped but if the PS3 launched first people would have ponied up because everyone was anxious for the next gen.
The online service point is good, but I don't think it explains why so many people opted for the 360 last gen.-
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The 360 didn't dominate anything. It's about even with the PS3 and it took Sony to do pretty much everything wrong and Microsoft everything right just to get to the point of market parity.
I think it's a grand assumption in general that Microsoft is going to see success like they did this generation on brand name alone. If the previous market shows us anything, it is very much a factor of the better platform and the decisions on how it runs which wins and not just who is running the platform.-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles#Video_game_consoles_.28not_including_handhelds.29
Nintendo Wii 2006
99.38 million
Sony PlayStation 3 2006
70 million (IDC January 2013 estimate: "about 77 million")
Microsoft Xbox 360 2005
75.9 million
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Not by much. Even with older numbers it's less than one game difference.
360 8.8
PS3 8.1
Wii 7.7
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2010/05/15/ps3_game_attach_rate_closes_in_on_xbox_360_s
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Oh, wow, I thought the 360 trounced the PS3 this time around.
I wonder what the numbers would look like if the PS3 had launched a year earlier than the 360 instead of the other way around?
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The 360 also dominated because it's great for people that don't want to have to upkeep a computer to play high-end (for the time) games. It also did have a great marketing thing going. Ask any tom dick or harry be he 12 years old or 32 years old what an Xbox is and they look at you like you are stupid. THAT'S marketing.
My thing is and always has been the eye-roll-worthy stance of PC Gaming > Console gaming and all that goes with it.
Furthermore, what I said is true but I'd loooove to eat my words on it if folks did actually start turning always-online and the drm retardedness on its head by not buying it.-
But the PS3 is the same, I mean, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to use a console. It's not about PC vs 360 it's about 360 vs PS3
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Dave, I know you love your console gaming.
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Also, I don't consider most Shackers as gullible, including you, so your sarcasm is misplaced.
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2/10
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Anyone who uses the phrase "slap in the face" when discussing video games automatically makes me ignore anything they typed. Unless you're literally discussing someone slapping someone in the face. Otherwise you lose me right there.
Seriously though if this is true, I'm probably going to seriously consider not buying a 720. At this point MS had me as a customer to lose but if the rumors are true then they're doing a good job of just that :/ Hopefully it does wind up just being a rumor that got out of control.-
It was a rough day, now that i've had some rum i just feel great and i agree, it was a pretty retarded post with sone semblance of truth. Just some.
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UPDATE:
"We apologize for the inappropriate comments made by an employee on Twitter yesterday. This person is not a spokesperson for Microsoft, and his personal views do not reflect the customer centric approach we take to our products or how we would communicate directly with our loyal consumers. We are very sorry if this offended anyone, however we have not made any announcements about our product roadmap, and have no further comment on this matter."
http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/5/4188316/microsoft-statement-on-employee-rant-on-next-generation-xbox-
was he fired?
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I doubt that MS would say. I also doubt that Orth will ever unprotect his Twitter account after this experience.
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Why? When was the last time you pulled your router power to play your 360? I can't think of a single time in years I've played my Xbox offline. It's plugged into the network, and I'm just playing it when it's on live. Sometimes in parties, sometimes not. It doesn't really bother me one way or another.
Also, all you guys are forgetting, the PS4 may not "have an always on requirement" unless you want to stream games with Gaikai for backwards compatability, or patch your games, or stream movies, or I don't know, do about 90% of things you do on a console these days.-
See the problem with this is there is a huge complex infrastructure on the other side of that Internet connection that needs to be working as well. I've seen no indication from anyone using these methods that they are capable of running these things with the uptime and capacity that is expected to service an always on authentication system.
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Maybe for significant downtime issues but I get randomly logged out fairly often or can't log in for some reason for a few minutes and keep in mind Xbox Live as of now is largely asynchronous. You see the same problems with their services like Office365 where they are largely always up but a few times a month you'll have short term log-in issues and shit. You can usually ignore this though as it doesn't necessarily interrupt what you were trying to do.
Now every person playing has to hit the servers every 3 minutes or it kicks you out of the game? They are just asking for all kinds of issues. That's very close to having to maintain an uninterrupted, real-time connection with every client constantly. Good luck with that. -
Remember Christmas 2008? Live was offline for almost 2 weeks. People are quick to remember PSN's gaffe but have been so quick to forget Microsoft's.
Hypothetical Situation Time!
Imagine you just got a fancy new Xbox 720 and some games for Christmas. Assume you have an Internet connection and it works just fine. You turn on your console and you are presented with the first screen asking if you want to log in or create a new account. Could not connect to Live servers. Please try again later. You cannot proceed. You go on the Internet to see what's wrong and read that the Live servers have been overloaded with millions of people connecting simultaneously. Your console is completely unusable until service is restored, but it's the holidays so Microsoft is operating with a skeleton crew so don't expect things to be fixed very quickly. Those games you got with it that have single player content? Can't play them. I doubt you would be very happy.
This is just one simple example of what can go wrong with always-online, but probably one of the most frustrating since it's completely out of your control.
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I'm not worried about MY connection...
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Why should we, consumers, settle for less? Prove to me that having a console that's little more than a paperweight without an Internet connection is better than one I can just connect whenever I want?
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while it wouldn't personally affect me, i find it pretty obnoxious. sure, reward those who keep it connected with neat features and advantages - that's fine. auto-patches; auto-downloads; better network features. awesome! reward the always-on crowd. but don't punish everyone else. let them use their system. more flies with honey, etc.
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My biggest issue is, what happens to the console when they no longer support it? I still have all my old consoles back to the intellivision and they still work. Would this?
Maybe they would keep the platform up, but most don't have a good track record (original xbox live anyone? Not as big a deal when it's only multiplayer, but...) -
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What about when you move and Comcast won't hook up your Internet for a week? It's not the everyday use cases for me, it's the occasions like that.
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I don't always play online but my consoles are always connected anyway. That being said, I still don't like being forced to have it online to do everything. There are times (admittedly very rare) when I would not have a connection but would still like the console to be able to play single player games.
At my in-law's house where they have fairly unreliable internet, in the back of the minivan for the kids to play on the entertainment system, those rare times when our internet connection is down, or when the PSN/Live is down for maintenance (PSN was down recently for 2 days for extended maintenance), etc.
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Maybe when the connection to the internet is considered a proper utility and has the reliability of such. I have fairly decent connection most of the time but even I get random outages here and there. It would annoy me to no end if I couldn't access any of my games during such an outage. On PC for instance I can access a lot of games in offline mode on steam or DRM free indies and old games. If the rumor is true on the the Xbox720 using this system you would be at the mercy of the servers and your connection with no option. We saw first hand in recent years about drm failures with things like uplay, Battle.net (diablo 3), and Simcity just name a few.
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Here's a link to the tweets.
http://cheezburger.com/7264745216 -
I can see why some may think it isn't a big deal, but for others (including myself) it is a total decision changer. I've always been pro Xbox but if this rings true it'll be a no-braining to not purchase it.
If I were still in college living on my own, I wouldn't care as much because the Xbox, for my sole purposes, would be "always online" anyway. Although there's still the argument about my horrible experience with Diablo III connection drops, internet outages, and hell... if I lose my job and my internet gets shut off temporarily, last thing I want is to also not have my games.
But anyway, it is only a decision changer for me now because I now have FAMILY. I'm willing to bet this may be one of the big polarizing differences between naysayers and yaysayers.
Our consoles are not stationary in my home. Although we're big on games, we cannot afford to have a 360 for every person, so sometimes when we want the living room TV and one of our kids wants to play the 360, we decide to let them cart it around to some other TV where internet is not reliable.
My son sometimes takes a console to his grandparents' when he spends the night. Now I have to train him or my parents on configuring the console onto their network? for the money we've laid down, they should be able to just hook it up and play. Not to mention I have router issues in the past, and while I'm at work, no one else in the home would know how to fix router configuration so they can play Gears of War or something.
The whole thing just turns me off and turns me on to a console which doesn't have these issues.
Mind you, if high speed internet was as reliable as a high-quality cell phone network (and accessable by all devices in the home at once), this wouldn't really be as much of an issue. Although I'll never forget the issues with Diablo III... never even got back into that game after that. -
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"Insensitive to gamers..." Great, another victim class emerges. I totally understand disliking always-online, but come on, do we have to be such whiny p*ssies about everything? If you don't like something about a product, don't buy it. Either enough people will avoid their products that they get the message and change their approach, or most people won't care and you're out of luck, so get over it. Either way, there's no benefit to all the constant moaning.
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Just not buying it doesn't work. You have to voice why you are not buying it to make a change. There is a huge benefit to the constant moaning as it will result in change.
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It would be insensitive not to gamers but to people of less privilege who happen to be gamers too. From a ethical standpoint, it's inconsequential really. It's just games by the end of the day. From a business standpoint, it's awful. You are essentially alienating a large demographic.
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so many sock puppets on the internet these days. Let me get this straight, there are actually people in this thread that are defending this idea? Those are called sock puppets because there's absolutely no justifying this to consumers because it can't be justified. It's a power grab. Bring on the sock puppets!
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If Xbox has to be "on" in order to play the games....Sony dominates. Kthxbai Microsoft.
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