Doom 4 was not 'exciting' enough, sent back to the drawing board
Hey, remember Doom 4? Bethesda admits that it "did not exhibit the quality and excitement" it needed to, while a new report goes into what went wrong with the game's development.
Hey, remember Doom 4? It was announced nearly five years ago, so we thought maybe Bethesda and id Software had forgotten about it. But apparently, no. It's been quite troubled--something that Bethesda VP of marketing and PR Pete Hines admitted.
"An earlier version of Doom 4 did not exhibit the quality and excitement that id and Bethesda intend to deliver and that Doom fans worldwide expect," Hines said. "As a result, id refocused its efforts on a new version of Doom 4 that promises to meet the very high expectations everyone has for this game and this franchise. When we’re ready to talk about the Doom 4 id is making, we will let folks know."
Although the admission is odd, Bethesda's continued silence on the game continues the trend. At QuakeCon last year, id's John Carmack said: "Doom 4 is being done in 'Bethesda mode' where we're still not talking about it. It's done when it's done and we don't want people reading more into it than they should."
However, Kotaku says that the project has been doomed and "plagued by mismanagement," according to its sources. They report that some had jokingly described the game as "Call of Doom," as its focus on scripted set pieces and "the obligatory vehicle scene" made it feel more like Activision's popular military FPS, than a proper Doom game. "There was kind of the recognition that in order to be a big shooter these days, you have to have some amount of the big, bombastic movie experience that people get pulled through," one source said.
Thankfully, "Call of Doom" was scrapped, with Carmack reminding the team that "Doom means two things: demons and shotguns." However, the critical and financial failure of Rage threw another wrench in Doom 4's development. A new mandate was passed down to the studio: "Just do Doom 4." And with that, the team had to undergo a creative and tech reboot--whilst trying to mesh with the Rage team. It led to a "power struggle," according to the report.
Since then, Kotaku claims that "most of id's top talent has left or been fired," with another source saying that "people were leaving steadily through last year." With the game "never even close to a shipped product," Doom 4 could become the industry's next Duke Nukem Forever.
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Andrew Yoon posted a new article, Doom 4 was not 'exciting' enough, sent back to the drawing board.
Hey, remember Doom 4? Bethesda admits that it "did not exhibit the quality and excitement" it needed to, while a new report goes into what went wrong with the game's development.-
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How would you feel about Dead Space 1 crossed with DooM's setting? I am quite convinced that that is what we will end up with. Initially I was reluctant as I saw the change of pace it would entail as a fatal floor. Now though I can't really see a Serious Sam or Painkiller Doom4 working for a mass market audience. Back tracking, horror, demons, a station planet or ship overrun - the only thing I can't square is non closet shocks when ammo is plentiful?
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Doom 2 came out a year after Doom, ran on almost the exact same tech, and had a total production staff of about 15 people. They also didn't have Bethesda executives yelling at them to clone Call of Duty.
The Call of Duty Flameout didn't happen until last year, after the demise of Kaos (Homefront), and the death of the Medal of Honor modern military franchise.
Megatexture was also a boondoggle, but Id would never demo a real-world scenario, so we didn't see its weaknesses until Rage was released. Id Tech 5 could still be a good foundation with a reworked renderer, but if most of Id's engine talent walked, there's not much hope for Id or Bethesda to use that tech, let alone to license it.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_software#Games_developed_by_Id_Software
just quake live and some mobile conversions -
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From the ETQW credits:
"id Software
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars is an id Software game and is powered by id Software's id Tech 4 game engine. Production, development and technical assistance have been provided by id Software, with specific contributions by
Executive Producer Kevin Cloud
Producer Jason Kim
Programming John Carmack, Robert A. Duffy, Jan Paul van Waveren, Timothee Besset, John Dean, Brian Harris
Art Patrick Duffy
Design Steve Rescoe, Christian Antkow, Jerry Keehan
Animation John Root, Eric Web
Sound Christian Antkow
Business Development Marty Stratton, Steve Nix
Special Thanks Tim Willits, Todd Hollenshead, Matt Hooper, Mal Blackwell, Adam Pyle, Andy Chang, Seneca Menard, Dan Sarkar, Vitaliy Naymushin, Kenneth Scott, James Houska, Victor Mercieca (Vexar), Grayson Wendell, David Haley
Additional Map Development Nerve Software"
(Notice almost as many people from id worked on ETQW as the entire Doom 3 team, notice also that the programming was ETQW specific. So that is in addition to the idTech 4 engine).
and Quake 4:
"id Software
Executive Producer Tim Willits
Sound Design Christian Antkow
Programming Jan Paul van Waveren, Timothee Besset, Robert A. Duffy
Design Mal Blackwell, Jerry Keehan
Quake II Xbox Programming Brian Harris
Art Kenneth Scott"
and Wolfenstein(2009):
"
id Software
Executive Producer Kevin Cloud
CEO Todd Hollenshead
Director of Business Development Steve Nix
Package Design Stephan Martinière
Community Manager Peter Sokal"
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At QCon 2007, Carmack said it was called either Darkness or The Darkness, but it was unrelated to the comic book or the band. I don't remember exactly how he phrased it but basically he implied that when word got out in the game developer community that they had stopped working on it, 2K or whoever took the chance to potentially cash in on any consumer confusion (if, I'm guessing, it got leaked out) and ran out to go license the comic book by the same name and that that was "a separate issue we're addressing".
Nothing further is known on it though.
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In one of his Quakecon keynotes, Carmack talked about the failures of the RAGE project a little. The biggest issue was that early on, the art guys didn't know exactly what they could and could not do as the tech side fleshed out how megatexturing would work on dynamic objects. Eventually Carmack told them to go ahead and just do whatever and he'd make it work. This turned out to be a huge mistake as the technical issues were quite complex, and by the time he realized it, it was too late as the art side had already completed a ton of shit. In the end, between the challenges of megatexture and the stress it put on the art side, everything got utterly fucked.
He said that, in retrospect, they SHOULD have done one more game engine using megatexture mostly only for the static map, somewhere halfway between Quake Wars and Rage.
The rest of this is speculation, but I believe that at least a third of RAGE was cut because of this. I also suspect it led to the Bethesda buy-out. It definitely destroyed what was left of their reputation after Monster Closets.
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I was not happy about Willits' project management on Rage, but whoever greenlit "Call of Doom" better have had their priorities reset, if not ushered out of the building. Project management in games in the past 4 years has been turned on its head in general, but there was some bad leadership at Id, and us gamers knew it when we heard all of the controller evangelism, car racing fanaticism, and lack of focus on the FPS mechanic. Yes, I can empathize with why financially that had to be done, but the horse is already out of the barn.
Nick Breckon's departure from Bethesda to take up a writing position at Telltale has interesting timing; probably not related, but interesting timing. It's sad when Pete Hines can be more frank about Doom 4 than Todd Hollenshead, Tim Willits, or John Carmack. -
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I actually enjoyed Rage once I got past the texture popping. The area that happens the worst in is unfortunately right at the beginning of the game. If you fix that and give it a proper ending it would be considered at the very least a very good game. There are moments of brilliant level design, the art direction was excellent, guns felt very "id" which is a good thing. I was shocked they let it ship with such severe pop in issues and effectively no real ending though.
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I bought Rage about a month ago and the texture popping is hardly recognizable in its current version (my hardware specs: Radeon 7870, i5, 4GB RAM, SSD). I think the engine feels very solid and the large, organic levels are really awesome. It's a lot of fun as a shooter; the vehicle stuff is so-so, but not terrible. I don't consider Id Software a kick-ass game developer anymore since Quake 4 and Doom 3, but I think Rage was a slight step up from those past games, although its release was screwed up.
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Yeah, the burned in ambient lighting really helped render speed. I felt like it was an okay game though. It had moments that really shined, but not enough.
At least when Raven doesn't hit a home run, it's still a pretty good game, not many studios can say the same. For the record, I quite liked Singularity, it was mechanically derivative, but it felt good.
Never got to try their Wolfenstein, waited for a sale that never came. Their Jedi Knight games were pretty fantastic though, and if you played Heritic 2, you can see the evolution of the staff to the light saber.
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But the gameplay in Rage and Doom 3 was incredibly dull and repetitive, so much so I gave up half way through. Between the Rage/Doom 3 and Call of Doom I'd much rather have the later.
They only way they'll make Doom 4 any good is to give it Quakeworld speed and movement control. I doubt that'll happen because Id have tended more towards dumbing down the movement control and reducing the speed to a snails pace. I suspect Doom 4 will be another slow and repetitive pile of crap, assuming Bethesda doesn't cut their losses and shut Id down entirely before the game is released.
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I have faith it'll be a competent product, but not a great/landmark one. I didn't HATE Rage or Doom 3, but they're not OMGWOW products like Doom and Quake were, and they're not establishing and cultivating online gaming like Quake 3 did.
Their peak has been long over, but they still make completely playable games. -
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Personally I've lost all faith in id Software, they have seemed more interested in creating new technologies rather than good games. After the disappointment of RAGE I don't expect to bother with D4 at all. What made id games great was the atmosphere, the high speed gameplay that was easy to learn but hard to master and a strong multiplayer component. I just don't see them being able to pull off that simple formula.
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I'm about as big an id fan boy as there is left these days, as I enjoyed Rage and Doom 3 quite a bit, but Call of Doom kind of makes me wanna vomit.
It's especially disappointing to here after Carmack said years ago at Quakecon that the Doom 4 would be more like Doom 1 and 2 than 3.
While I enjoyed Rage, I don't think Willits is some amazing game designer or anything, or anyone else that I know of that's left at the studio. Carmack was most involved in design during Quake 3, which is my favorite game of all time, and his quote about demons and shotguns makes me feel like he needs to get more involved in design with this as well.
id keeps trying to push story and design when it's not their strength and doesn't seem like it ever will be. I could make a pretty good argument that story in shooters is pretty awful across the board although you obviously have your exceptions here and there, but there's still the problem of focusing so much on story when you're mass murdering people/aliens/whatever.
Carmack hinted at wanting to do a Quake 1 style remake or reboot and I think that's what they'd be best at. The shooting aspect of their games is still just as good if not better than anyone elses. They felt forced to expand to a big team to compete with other modern big budget shooters, bu I think there's a market out there now for smaller scale ~$15-20 multiplayer or fast paced single player shooters that id could thrive at again. Unfortunately, it's not gonna happen now that Bethesda owns them... -
If I were to design Doom 4 check out the big ego on me I would do this :
1. Hell on Earth Doom 3 was a reboot, why not Doom 4 as well?
2. No NPCs Every person you run into is a human being (think DayZ style). No stores, no currency, just whatever arbitrary bartering method people want, up to and including a shot to your face for your rifle
3. All the world's a stage LAN/Online multiplayer. You want PVE, LAN it up, you want PVP join some servers. Characters are stored in a central database but servers can be privately owned. Items and characters cannot move from server to server unless allowed by some DB standard (like version numbers or a check on mods)
4. MODS! release with the ability to create your own items. If a server will host it you should be allowed to create and use it
5. No milking the franchise! I know free to play is in, fuck all that. We're going traditional here, you buy the game and that's it. No adds, no pay $5 bucks for an extra cool looking item, no pay $5 bucks for an extra map. If the server will host it, its allowed
sadly, I'm not a designer not any time soon anyway so my vision of Doom 4 shall only live in my head. -
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idTech3 had 14 games plus expansions that weren't based on id properties. But yeah, id, or at least Carmack had no interest in expanding the company to support engine licensees.
That left Epic to dominate, and sadly allowed id's pipeline to remain, and even become more difficult to use, while the UnrealEngines became even easier to use. I imagine that continues to have impact on productivity.
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One source described a meeting in which ZeniMax executives told Id leads that “Doom 4 can and should be as big as Skyrim,” as far as both sales and cultural impact.
This is what's wrong with ZeniMax owning Id Software. Back in 2008, it wasn't such a bad thing, but ZeniMax apparently really really REALLY wanted Call of Doom.-
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I have some hope that Zenimax is smarter than just wanting call of doom. Clearly Doom was a HUGE part of the reason for the acquisition, and I think it makes sense for them to be super-careful with it.
But... I think the primary strength of Doom is speed, and that's difficult to reproduce on a multiplatform title. After playing a lot of Invasion, I've come to think of Doom not as a FPS, but as a first person shmup. I don't know if anyone at id feels this way, or if they just feel that game isn't really marketable nowadays.
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Doom series sits in a weird place as its not a pure horror and its not a fps that really has much depth in the way of the story. Its kind of just a run and gun game that would throw scares at you periodically. This is something common in the games of the 1990's. The genres kind of have migrated away from that style and pretty is why games like Doom and Duke Nukem are falling flat on their faces.
As far as horror games go the indie games have been breaking new ground with the genre. The modern fps troupes probably wouldn't work well. I think they kind of have to decide which path they want to go down as you can't really do both really well. -
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It'll be interesting to see what Carmack might have to say at QuakeCon. IMO there was an exasperated undercurrent to his comments on the direction of the studio over the last couple of years.
I've always enjoyed id's games, even Rage which was very unfairly maligned I thought, and it's disappointing to hear that after all this time the studio still can't get its act together with big teams. D4 is already looking like it'll take much longer than Rage did to ship, which is just mad. -
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I loved the Doom and Quake series of games, back in the day.
But sadly, its success back then is its very undoing now. The market's completely saturated (and has been for over a decade) with hundreds of other studio's trying to bring their own FPS to the market. The result is that most people are getting very bored of the genre (unless you count the CoD kiddie brigade, which is not the Doom demographic).
No matter what Doom 4 ends up as, it's likely it will never achieve the same status or feeling that it did back in its glory days, simply because we've already been there and done it - a hundred times.
I wish them luck though - Doom was always the daddy of FPS and is more deserving of success than many of today's 'rinse and repeat' shooter crap-fests. -
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Id and Doom team needs to take a long hard look at Dark Souls and how they did their online interaction...
They made a single player game with all the elements of suspense that doom had but added a online function that didn't ruin the single player experience..
Dark Souls did everything Id said was supposed to do with an online single player game.
Anyway I hope they get their shit together and pull a great game out of their ass to redeem themselves .
They can make a great game if they get inspired.
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