Remember Me rejected by publishers due to female protagonist
Remember Me's female protagonist Nilin made some publishers uneasy, both for sales and fears of making players feel "awkward" when she kisses a male character.
Remember Me is a cyberpunk adventure featuring a heroine named Nilin attempting to find her memories in 2084's Neo-Paris. The fact that Nilin is a "she" instead of a "he" caused reservations among publishers, though, as creative director Jean-Maxime Moris says some were unwilling to take on the game due to her gender.
"We had some that said, 'Well, we don't want to publish it because that's not going to succeed. You can't have a female character in games. It has to be a male character, simple as that,'" Moris told the PA Report. He went on to describe that Nilin, at one point, would be seen kissing a male character, which made the publishers doubly uncomfortable. "We had people tell us, 'You can't make a dude like the player kiss another dude in the game, that's going to feel awkward.'
"I'm like, 'If you think like that, there's no way the medium's going to mature,' There's a level of immersion that you need to be at, but it's not like your sexual orientation is being questioned by playing a game. I don't know, that's extremely weird to me."
Moris said that making Nilin a woman was "not a decision" but rather simply "something that just felt right from the beginning."
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Steve Watts posted a new article, Remember Me rejected by publishers due to female protagonist.
Remember Me's female protagonist Nilin made some publishers uneasy, both for sales and fears of making players feel "awkward" when she kisses a male character.-
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I hope this does sell, I don't mind a female protag when done right. Samus (sans other m), Lara Croft and Jill Valentine are all part of big franchises that have sold millions of units. Though it is interesting to note that none of them have overt love interests (even if every ships Chris and Jill).
I guess we'll see if it's something that resonates with the larger gameplaying audience of young males.-
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I would like to see less "dudebro" characters, and more "gentleman and scholar" characters, when it comes to male protagonists. Unfortunately, most action games go cheap on character writing, or the writer has a dudebro agenda.
Same goes for female protagonists; I want to see less "hot chick with a sword", and more strong and intelligent personalities. I have to ask: how did the new Tomb Raider do in that respect? -
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So this game must have been amazing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Blades
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It is possible for video games with female protagonists to be 'rubbish.' Given the state of video game characters, it's quite likely.
Yes, if ratios of games with male/female protagonists were equal, there would be an equal amount of 'rubbish' females. I entirely agree with that sentence.
Yes, it is insulting to imply that protagonists should only be female if they can be "done right."-
'Yes, it is insulting to imply that protagonists should only be female if they can be "done right." '
Why would that be insulting? Would you want an over-sexed, ridiculous character over one that was 'done right'? You're contradicting your own statement.
" I want more female characters but they shouldn't be 'done right' because that's insulting, even though the risk of more stereotypical, rubbish females characters would be higher.' You can't have it both ways. Female characters have to be 'done right' because if they aren't, not only do they make games bad, they mischaracterize women and perpetuate female stereotypes.-
I don't see Alice mentioning the oversexualization of female characters anywhere.
Female characters should not be protected to "be done right" on the basis of their gender.
The gender of a protagonist is irrelevant. Both genders have been 'mischaracterized' and perpetuated stereotypes.
Placing limits on the existence of a female protagonist doesn't help, as much as you think it may protect them. It creates a different divide.
She isn't contradicting shit.
How about "don't write a shitty character"?-
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I assume "done right" in his statement was more of a reflection on the immaturity in the industry in general, and not necessarily one indicative of the quality of character.
Frequently, female characters in games are big-chested, scantily clad damsels in distress. Male characters are rarely modeled as though they just returned from a Chippendale's shoot, and thus no worry about them being "done right".
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because would you ever say "i don't mind a male protagonist when done right"? no, because male is considered the default. if a male character is terrible, no one ever says it's because he's a male or uses it as an argument to have less male protagonists. but female characters are defined first as female characters, and that's pretty dumb.
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I would say that there are already a wide diverse range of male characters in games, from nerdy silent protagonists, to stereotypical feminine jrpg types, to brodudes, to antiheroes, etc. 95% of the time when a female is in a game, she is depicted as the eyecandy T and A with little story development.
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I get the feeling everyone is unable to read Alice's post. Maybe I'm misinterpreting her.
"I don't mind a female protag when done right" implies that if she isn't done right, the fact it's a female will bother him.
The gender of a character should be completely irrelevant. The quality of that character is a different subejct and not connected in any way.-
The gender of a character should not be completely irrelevant, but is should not restrict the narrative possibilities of the game. I would love to see more great female characters, but I find poorly executed female characters to be way worse than poorly executed male ones. Typically poor male characters are either shallow dudebros, or just blank avatars. Poor female characters are frequently very sexist and perpetuate shitty stereotypes that turn women away from gaming.
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Alice, serious question, so when a game like Metroid Other M is released where they completely spay her and make her completely submissive and subservient, you are ok with that because, well at least she was female?
Surely you would agree that that would be an example of a female protagonist 'done wrong' and why he would need to put that disclaimer in his post?
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Right or wrong, female characters are scrutinized and aggressively criticized. Too sexy, plays to stereotypes too much, fails to present a positive image to girls, blah blah blah. So yeah, I'm not surprised a lot of us hold female characters to higher standards because we've been trained by the critique and backlash about how women are portrayed in games to expect and demand better.
So if that's a bad thing, game reviewers, game publications, and people who push for better portrayal of women in games have themselves to blame.
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I'm pretty sure Lara Croft was sexed up. When your boobs reach almost as far as your hand reaches, they might just get in the way. I'm talking old school Lara of course.
Personally I have no issues, although I personally understand that females in any aspect of life are sexualized for our entertainment. Be it a TV/Movie character or a cartoon, females are always sexualized. At least games like Skyrim or ME let you create some pretty ugly characters, but I'm pretty sure the majority were trying to make their character look at least attractive to themselves unless wanting to play a less charismatic person.
The thing is, it's possible these producers are looking at game sales data to analyze whether or not the gaming audience wants a femal protag or a female protag with a strictly hetro relationship. I agree with the developer though that without a chance, you can't expand the audience that might be fine with it. -
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That is pretty much what I was trying to say. I should have elaborated a bit more on my thought and I apologize for that.
I should have said that female protagonists do not bother me(to the contrary of the publisher in the article) and do not stop me from purchasing a game. I do have issue with the way some female characters are sexed up to better appeal to the young male demo. I have issue with things like Samus' zero suit (built in heels!) and the increase in it's appearance since Zero mission. I don't really like the way that Cortana has changed in visual design in Halo 4 as it isn't in keeping with the earlier games. As for Tomb Raider, I have to admit that I only started playing that franchise with the Crystal Dynamics games so for my experience that is what I'm basing my opinion on.
Tl;dr I put my foot in my mouth. Apologies.
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Word. And to tell ya the truth, I much prefer Fem Shep to male Shep.
... though I still slept with women as fem Shep >_>
But as referenced in this article, it wouldn't bother me to play as a female protagonist who has a romance with a dude, so long as it serves the story. If the story is good, and the execution works, then who cares?
Oh, I know. The tween and collegiate COD crowd /facepalm -
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Why do we see so few female lead characters then?
Also, although providing the player to choose gender is a positive, its not nearly the same thing is creating and writing an interesting specific female character.
Please help me out here thinking of all those recent games starring unique female leads.-
might have to do with sales. Yes Tomb Raider and Metroid did gangbusters, but tomb raider was mostly because of tits and ass. Think of how many other female protagonist lead games that probably didn't make enough money to attract a trend, like mirrors edge, trespasser, bloodrayne, x-blades, etc.
Producers seem to be short sighted, instead of copping to the fact that those games, aside from mirrors edge, were legit bad, all they see is 'female protagonist is the common link' and go for what 'works'.
Somewhat like how movie producers saw a few movies with the name 'mars' in the title and did everything they could to take 'mars' out of John Carter of Mars. Dumb decisions that aren't made with logic.-
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It's issue was no marketing and releasing on three different dates (one for each platform) in holiday season of 2003 that looked like this.
November 3 Fire Emblem N/A N/A GBA N/A
November 3 True Crime: Streets of LA N/A PS2, Xbox, GCN N/A N/A
November 4 Civilization III: Conquests Windows N/A N/A N/A
November 4 SOCOM II: U.S. Navy SEALs N/A PS2 N/A N/A
November 6 Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time N/A PS2 N/A N/A
November 10 Mario Party 5 N/A GCN N/A N/A
November 11 Beyond Good & Evil N/A PS2 N/A N/A
November 11 Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando N/A PS2 N/A N/A
November 11 SSX 3 N/A N/A GBA N/A
November 12 Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time N/A Xbox N/A N/A
November 12 Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield N/A Xbox N/A N/A
November 13 The Simpsons: Hit & Run Windows N/A N/A N/A
November 14 Kya Dark Lineage N/A PS2 N/A N/A
November 15 Crash Nitro Kart N/A PS2, Xbox, GCN GBA, N-Gage N/A
November 17 Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga N/A N/A GBA N/A
November 17 Mario Kart: Double Dash!! N/A GCN N/A N/A
November 18 Final Fantasy X-2 N/A PS2 N/A N/A
November 18 Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time N/A GCN N/A N/A
November 18 Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Windows N/A N/A N/A
November 18 Manhunt N/A PS2 N/A N/A
November 18 Victoria: An Empire Under the Sun Windows N/A N/A N/A
November 19 Beyond Good & Evil Windows N/A N/A N/A
November 19 Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy N/A Xbox N/A N/A
November 25 Max Payne 2: The Fall of Max Payne N/A Xbox N/A N/A
November 30 Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time Windows N/A N/A N/A
December 2 Beyond Good & Evil N/A Xbox N/A N/A
December 2 Deus Ex: Invisible War Windows Xbox N/A N/A
December 2 Max Payne 2: The Fall of Max Payne N/A PS2 N/A N/A
December 2 Silent Hill 3 Windows N/A N/A N/A
December 11 Beyond Good & Evil N/A GCN N/A N/A
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I should also mention the notable releases that came the two months before.
September 4 Battlefield 1942: Secret Weapons of WWII Windows N/A N/A N/A
September 8 Anarchy Online: The Shadowlands Windows N/A N/A N/A
September 9 EverQuest: Lost Dungeons of Norrath Windows N/A N/A N/A
September 16 Homeworld 2 Windows N/A N/A N/A
September 16 The Simpsons: Hit & Run N/A PS2, Xbox, GCN GBA N/A
September 17 Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy Windows N/A N/A N/A
September 22 Command & Conquer: Generals - Zero Hour Windows N/A N/A N/A
October 1 Freedom Fighters Windows PS2, Xbox, GCN N/A N/A
October 7 Viewtiful Joe N/A GCN N/A N/A
October 14 Jak II N/A PS2 N/A N/A
October 14 Max Payne 2: The Fall of Max Payne Windows N/A N/A N/A
October 14 Mega Man Zero 2 N/A N/A GBA N/A
October 20 SSX 3 N/A PS2, Xbox, GCN N/A N/A
October 21 Time Crisis 3 N/A PS2 N/A N/A
October 21 Super Mario Advance 4: Super Mario Bros. 3 N/A N/A GBA N/A
October 27 Tony Hawk's Underground N/A PS2, Xbox, GCN GBA N/A
October 27 WWE SmackDown! Here Comes the Pain N/A PS2 N/A N/A
October 28 Final Fantasy XI Windows (US) N/A N/A N/A
October 29 Call of Duty Windows N/A N/A N/A
October 29 The Suffering Windows PS2, Xbox, GCN N/A N/A
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Three of my favorite game protagonists in the past three years of games played have been women (Naija from Aquaria, Bayonetta, and Labrys from Persona 4 Arena). I understand that analysts like EEDAR keep saying that female-only protagonist games sell less than male-only, but it's up to publishers and producers to stop this.
The game that became Sleeping Dogs allegedly originally had a female protagonist, but was rewritten when Activision execs paraded around these stats.-
Publishers are the organizations of the gaming industry facing the brunt of pressure by capitalism to conform to the preference of the majority. They've always made decisions around what will maximize profit, and they always will. It's up to the developers to counteract this reality and demand their creative integrity remain intact.
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This isn't really a gender issue, publishers are always trying to suppress elements of their games that they think won't maximize appeal to the majority of consumers and thus maximize profits. This applies to any and all creative decisions by developers that haven't been proven to be as such. It's true that there's a large number of gamers who aren't used to having their only choice of character kissing guys, but it's also true there's plenty of other gamers who'd prefer it this way and by making the game like that the developers are helping to desensitize the uncomfortable gamers to this reality. The fact that the developers were able to go ahead with the female character anyway tells me this isn't a big issue because the game industry is changing regardless of resistance by dumb publishers.
Also, the headline is misleading. The game WASN'T rejected by publishers in the end, and the current iteration of the game does indeed have a female protagonist. I'm kinda disappointed in shacknews for publishing the article with this slant, I already bailed on IGN and Kotaku for having an obnoxious amount of unnecessary and pointless gender related articles. -
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Where do they come up with this shit? Is there any data to support that games with female leads sell worse?
Honestly, not only do you have Tomb Raider, Mirrors Edge, Alice, and probably some others; you also have huge portions of gamers choosing to play females in MMO's and the Mass Effect community clammering for (and getting) the option of a female shepard.
Hell, I actually will generally choose a male character given the choice (and as close to human as I can get to boot; I even make them look somewhat like me - or at least how I wish I looked) but that in no way dimished my enjoyment of, say, Tomb Raider which is probably my favorite game released this year.
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What the fuck?! It is so fucking annoying we have asshats like that in the industry who think they know what I want to play. What ever happened to challenging the player a little bit? But even then, having a female character isn't even a challenge... it's just normal. I don't get it. This pisses me off.
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The game is being published by Capcom so finding a publisher doesn't seem to have been a problem. Saying publishers won't publish games with a female lead is also ridiculous given there are a great many games with female lead characters.
If he has to drum up controversy to promote his game then it must be pretty bad.-
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It's also not the first such story. http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/120558/InDepth_No_Female_Heroes_At_Activision.php
"Activision has no room for 'we are making an open-world game with a Hong Kong action movie feel with a female lead,' because that game doesn't exist right now," says one source. "What they do have room for is, 'we are making an open-world game with a gangster main character who can steal cars and shoot people, but it will be in Hong Kong instead of Liberty City. And then they go, 'Hey, GTA IV sold 10 million copies, so that's what we expect from you.'"
Look to that methodology to explain why all of Activision's flagship properties are male-led, says the source: "If Activision does not see a female lead in the top five games that year, they will not have a female lead," says the other source. "And the people that don't want a female lead will look at games like Wet and Bayonetta and use them as 'statistics' to 'prove' that female leads don't move mass units."
Ultimately, it comes down to money, sadly. They're pointing at almost the same statistics that the other publishers used to shoot down Remember Me, up until Capcom funded it.
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If I remember correctly, I thought I read somewhere that one of the things with this game was that there was no killing. Because the producer didn't like it or some such shit.. This is what turned me off to the game, not who the main character was.
We play games to kill stuff because most normal peeps don't kill people in real life.
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