LGBT convention GaymerCon secures Kickstarter funding
GaymerCon, a gaming convention created for LGBT video game-likers, is going to be considerably more flashy when it launches next summer, thanks to KickStarter. Having set out to raise $25,000 to expand plans for the con, the GaymerCon KickStarter has already raised around $32,000 with 24 days left to go.
GaymerCon, a new gaming convention created for LGBTQ (lesbian; gay; bisexual; trans; and queer) video game-likers, is going to be considerably more flashy when it debuts next summer, thanks to KickStarter. Having set out to raise $25,000 to expand plans for the con, the GaymerCon KickStarter has already raised around $32,000 with 24 days left to go.
"Gamers, as a whole, have had to make space for themselves in a society that, for a long time, treated them as outsiders. They have come together and created a real community of people, but one that is not always welcoming if you don't fit into the mold," GaymerCon's organisers explain on the KickStarter page. "Just like most gamers, queer geeks and gaymers want that same sense of community and belonging. Therefore we intend to create a space where all gamers and queer geeks can come together in a welcoming and safe space."
GaymerCon was going ahead no matter what happened on KickStarter, but the money will help with better venues, prizes, events, and all those other bits that make up an event.
"We want all genders, races, and sexual identities including our straight friends and allies to come together and have a gay, geeky good time. We believe very strongly that creating a space like this is not only important for building a strong community, but also showing new generations of gaymers that there are others like them out there, they are not alone, and there is a welcoming place for them, not just at GaymerCon, but as part of the larger gaming community."
Also, Ellen McLain is amazing.
-
Shacknews
replyAlice O'Connor posted a new article, LGBT convention GaymerCon secures Kickstarter funding.
GaymerCon, a gaming convention created for LGBT video game-likers, is going to be considerably more flashy when it launches next summer, thanks to KickStarter. Having set out to raise $25,000 to expand plans for the con, the GaymerCon KickStarter has already raised around $32,000 with 24 days left to go.-
-
[deleted]
-
-
Cool logo, but what is this about needing a "safe" and "welcoming" convention environment? That implies that they don't feel safe around gamer geeks at large, does it not? I don't think that's very fair.
I guess as long as they still come to the regular conventions it's fine, but I don't want gamers to become balkanized and tied up in any identity grouping other than "we like to play video games". We're not so huge a demographic that we can afford to split up our convention-attending population into a dozen little subgroups. If we end up with Spanish-speaking gamers conventions, and then Christian/Jewish/Muslim gamers conventions, and on and on, it's going to be a drag. There's so much in this country already where people are hyper-aware of the race/religion/political beliefs of others. Can't we just get together and cry over Zelda without wondering if the other guy's a vegan?-
Don't you think it's a bit victim-bashing to complain to the people who got bullied out of the 'group at large'? On the Shack alone every other insult I get about something I say has to make reference to the fact that I'm gender-queer, and while I have thick skin and it doesn't bother me, I can totally see why some people who love video games but hate being called faggot every three seconds might want somewhere else to go aside from your average con.
-
If the online friends you have are saying stuff that upsets you, tell them. You seem to indicate that you find it tiring but not hurtful, so for you, at least, this is a good environment. I seriously doubt that you will encounter strangers calling you anything approaching insulting at a gamer's convention. If you did, they'd probably get bounced to cheers from the convention at large.
I was a little cheesed at the word "safe". Like, are the main 'cons not safe? Has there been a beating I didn't hear about? Was someone chased from the convention hall? I think if you're afraid that even 2% of the population of a given convention might have something rude to say to you, then you're going to need a separate subway platform, separate baseball stadium, separate anything, and that won't just apply to gay people. We'll all need our own private space.
Now: If they hadn't said that they needed a "safe" place but instead said something like "Guys, let's be honest. There are things that only we as a community understand and frankly I want to go someplace where we all get the jokes and the memes and not worry about freaking out some 14 year old insecure kid with hang-ups. Let's have a gays and no-hangups straights gaming convention. Who's with me?", that'd be awesome.
But the "safe" thing? Sounds like gamers are a threat to gay gamers or something. I just don't believe that. At least, they're no more dangerous than the population at large, with whom you share a sidewalk and a town with every day of your life.-
A "safe space" is somewhere folks feel free to talk about whatever they want, hold hands with whoever they want, and kiss whoever they want, safe from people staring, whispering, snapping photographs, laughing, or otherwise judging and being dicks. It's not necessarily about getting your teeth kicked in.
More than that, it's about not having to even be worried that such things might happen. It's somewhere people know they're safe, not think or hope.-
Can these people not do this at normal conventions? I mean, gamers in general are pretty quirky people and they seem to be more open minded than most. At PAX, E3, and even Comic Con - I've never seen gays, lesbians, bi-sexual, and cross dressers treated badly - If anything they are welcomed. But that has been my experience.
-
To your first point - The normal shacker isn't my friend. Granted, I should be open, I say some very controversial things, and usually when people can't find fault in my argument itself, they just start calling me faggot or saying "You pretend to bea girl on the internet" or something else. And no, it's not hurtful, because I am fabulous. But like I said, I can UNDERSTAND that some people couldn't handle that level of abuse.
As for safe, let me just say that it isn't just me or the people at this LGBT convention that think the average gamer isn't very inclusive with people -not like them-. Big companies (reluctantly) agree http://kotaku.com/5824084/well-thats-one-way-to-combat-misogyny-in-gaming-
This was meant in reponse to Mongbat and someone got latched onto you NGG, my apologies =(
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Do you presume to know the race/sexuality of the people throwing out the words? Personally, I don't think anyone should say stuff like that, but certain groups think it's OK to use words applying to their own "group." That is their business.
In my experience, the n-bombs and similar are almost exclusively the province of what SOUNDS LIKE 13 year old kids trying to make a splash.-
[deleted]
-
Yeah but nearly all of them are complete cowards and won't even look you in the eye when you are face to face with them. Everyone's a tough guy on the internet, haven't you heard? And everyone wants to shock. Guess what words are the most shocking now? Racially tinged insults and homophobic rants. The F-word no longer surprises anyone, so they roll out the words that have the greatest "oh no you didn't" impact. Do you actually think it more likely the kid throwing the n-word out is actually racist, or just a twerp looking to have an impact?
-
-
-
-
[deleted]
-
I'm not assuming they won't go. My first post in fact said that as long as they still come to the "main" conventions, it does no harm to the community. If they subtract their presence (and also their "flavor") from the main conventions, then it's a loss.
-
A loss for you.
-
Are you implying that I'm gay or that I recognize that w/o the gay community we'd still be wearing cowboy hats and painting the interiors of our homes in black and white like I see in old movies? Either way, it's a loss.
And yes, the stereotype that gays generally have superior design taste and good fashion sense is pretty much true. Burn me at the stake for my prejudice. It's TRUE.-
Actually, Alice, I don't know what you mean, now that I think more upon it. I think it's a loss for everyone if we splinter off and start holing up in little enclaves. It's better if we're a melting pot, not a bunch of little ingredients on the shelf, afraid to mix with anyone else.
So a loss for those that go into "identity conventions" and for those who go to the broader conventions and don't get to rub elbows with those who left.-
If groups run little splinter conventions and decide that they'd rather drop out of the main conventions to stick with the splinter, well, clearly they're happier with the splinter. So splintering would be better for them. The straight white heterosexual male might miss them, but they're happier, in your example.
-
Interesting take on it. Freedom of association should be a given. However, I think they, too, would lose something if they stopped coming to the main conventions. And if they stopped going, I do not think it would be from any legitimate fears of violence or mockery. Again, the words "safe" and "welcoming" imply that they feel they are not "safe" or "welcome" with the gaming community at large. I think that's over the top.
And Alice, here I thought that retreating into an insular group of like-thinkers was a bad thing. It's the variety of viewpoints that we should crave. Taken that way, would it also not be a loss for them to retreat from the community at large? A loss even for them?
Put another way, wouldn't the straight community lose something if they similarly retreated? What if they did a "straights-only" convention, and stopped going to the larger cons? Are you suggesting that excluding gays would not at all be a loss for the straights? That there's no viewpoint or "flavor" that they'd be missing out on?-
Queer people aren't in any danger of becoming isolated from the straight world, seeing as they spend almost all day, every day surrounded by it.
And, you know, QuakeCon and PAX are straight shows. They're not "straights-only" but GaymerCon isn't "queer-only"; it's merely organised with queers as the main intended attendee. GaymerCon says, "We want all genders, races, and sexual identities including our straight friends and allies to come together and have a gay, geeky good time."
And I don't mean to accuse QCon or PAX of being intentionally exclusionary, they merely reflect the culture they're of--straight culture.
See above post re: "safe."-
And, you know, QuakeCon and PAX are straight shows.
What do you mean "straight shows"? Is this because most of the attendees are straight? Or is there a large amount of clearly heterosexual oriented imagery or adverstising present? -
If you're somehow saying that gays don't have any impact whatsoever on American culture, and that it's a "straights-only" culture, then I'm afraid there's a basic error in your thinking.
We're living in a world where the suit I'm wearing was designed by a gay man. We just got done remembering Gore Vidal. Elton John is one of the most beloved artists of all time. Lady Gaga tells me we're all born this way. Neil Patrick Harris is loved by millions (oh that Barney...).
What culture are you talking about? Straight culture hasn't been straight since the 70's, at least not in America. First of all, 90% of gay or straight habits are the same anyway. We all get hangovers and we all worry about bills. Some of us are good at roping cattle and some of us are interior designers (both gay and straight for both those categories, btw). If there is a gay aesthetic, and I believe there is, we're soaking in it, just like we're soaking in "straight" and Italian, and Black and pretty much every other group you can imagine.
So when you say that it's a straight world, and we're surrounded by it, I have to laugh. Gays are a small sliver of the population at large but their contributions, culturally, have an outsize impact. It's a positive impact, for the most part. No group is "perfect" in their contributions, obviously.
A straight world? Really? Maybe in Saudi Arabia or something, but not America, that's for sure, and I think that's where they're having the convention.-
-
Cultural acceptance and cultural impact are different things. LGBT may still get the short end of the stick when it comes to acceptance, but TheMongbat is right that LGBT cultural impact on the wider world is significant.
-
your outlook might depend on whether you're living in a major metropolis or a backwater
-
You don't get TV where you live?
-
the theoretical impact it's having on culture is pretty irrelevant if its impact is not felt in the culture where you live. i mean i would be pretty excited if I could turn on the TV and people in a third world nation were worshipping a picture of me but it doesn't fan me with palm leaves
-
What you are basically saying is that while there is evidence of acceptance of gays throughout culture, there is still the chance that the idiot living next door to you is quietly loading his shotgun to settle his beef with the "queers" in the neighborhood. Point taken, and of course you are right. However, there are always going to be cranks in this world. Taken to this particular discussion, the number of people at a gencon or dragoncon who dislike gays so much that they'd physically attack them is so small that I doubt any of us can find a single gay-bashing incident at any convention. And that doesn't mean there aren't fights at the conventions. Just that statistically you wouldn't find that gays were getting into fights or getting attacked more often than anyone else, and the motivations will not likely be gay-hate.
-
I think this boils down to a different definition of "safe" between these splinter-conners and yourself, you're using the concept of physical safety whereas they are talking about emotional safety (going somewhere that you don't feel like you're being judged negatively for who you are)
-
in marginalized communities the concept of "safe" meaning a place without judgment is very common
-
oh i see this conversation takes place below
-
anyway I just guess you hadn't seen the term before hence the confusion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-space-
Um, I sit in workplace behavior meetings at least once a year for my job, Gegtik. I know all about it. It all depends on what they meant by it. As I said, IF they mean a place to let their hair down, fine. As some posters here on this very thread have said, they feel as though conventions would not welcome them, so apparently there is room for interpretation.
-
No, those are pretty much the same. If people need a special place to let their hair down, it's because they feel they can't let their hair down in other places.
-
No, in one they feel uncomfortable because there are people not like them and they don't want to let it all hang out. In the other, they're afraid of getting their asses kicked.
-
[deleted]
-
Not entirely. Every effort should be made to make them feel welcome, and even if they're a little nervous despite those efforts, they should take a breath and come to the regular cons AND whatever other cons they want to make for themselves.
-
Whew, lucky we have straight men to tell queer people that the solution to their problems is to harden up.
-
Wow, making assumptions. Who said I was a man? You sure have some prejudices to work through, Alice.
As for telling them to harden up, well, that's good advice for everyone, frankly. Let your hair down wherever you like. If the worst you'll endure is whispers, then fuck 'em.
I don't limit my "lighten up, princess" advice to gays, believe me.
But apparently I'm a straight male who doesn't understand other people and has no compassion. That's the stereotype, after all. Oh, wait...-
Okay, good night.
-
I forgive you.
-
I find myself in the repulsive situation of actually agreeing with you on something.
Segregation is bad.
Self-segregation or other-segregation. It doesn't matter. It is a philosophically poor idea.
I can understand the desire to self-segregate; and I wouldn't wish to deny anyone the right to do so. But I would argue against it, with those who choose it. Try to convince them that it is a bad idea. I am against black-only groups. Women-only groups. etc... I might feel differently, if it were a general population more in line with the KKK and the LGBT participants were routinely harassed. But it isn't. Gamers are not some Hitler youth group that are out for blood. They are probably one of the top 5 LGBT-friendly groups around.
But then you say shit like this and your devil horns re-appear. I am reminded of what is wrong with you.-
Probably you just have a bias at this point. Alice was making assumptions that she herself would have taken offense to (and she has pulled out the "offended" card on this very thread.) I pointed that out, and she ignored it. Sauce for the goose, friend. If you're going to set a standard, you better live up to it. If you're a paragon against prejudice, but best not be prejudicial.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
And exactly where DO they get beat up? NYC? LA? Seattle? Because that's where the big Cons are held. We're not talking about conventions in Saudi Arabia. In NJ a kid skyped another guy making out with an older man and when that guy killed himself the entire state practically burned the perpetrator at the stake.
Or to go a bit more in line with what you are saying, Tashtego, gays in the world at large are likely to get beat up wherever they are. Do you think they are more or less likely to suddenly be attacked in the middle of a Minecraft session on a convention hall floor? Has ANYONE been physically attacked due to their perceived LGBT status at any gamer's convention, ever?-
TheMongbat, do you have any gay friends? Have you ever talked to them about these issues? Yes, gay people absolutely get beat up in the places you mentioned. They absolutely are discriminated against. They absolutely are harassed by the police. They absolutely seek out safe places where they can relax and participate in a community. This happens everywhere. If you don't see that, the most charitable thing I can say to you is that you are ignorant of these issues and should spend some time educating yourself, because you are coming off like a tremendously insensitive asshole in this thread, and I think you're probably a good guy who just doesn't know what it is like.
-
Well, I don't know how charitable you're being in calling me a tremendous asshole.. oh, only coming off as one. Then you call me ignorant, and that I "don't know what it's like."
Well, I'm not gay, so I can't talk about this, apparently, but do I have gay friends? Sure do. Have gay clients, too. Tons of them. I go to their family functions and I watch them grow up and grow old. The one gay guy I used to hang out with started more fights than he lost, so it's hard to see him as a victim of any of the various injuries he suffered.
I don't think you get what I'm saying here, because you're too busy getting insulted/insulting me. I don't care if they have "separate" conventions. However, I don't like hearing the "safe" line thrown out there because 1) it implies that they think gamers are all homophobes out to beat them to death at the next Magic: The Gathering convention and 2) it implies that they will run into a little identity-specific enclave and never come back to the gamer community at large.
Think it through for a minute: If they stop coming to the regular conventions, and I DIDN'T have plenty of "I know gay guys!" bona fides, how the hell am I ever going to meet gay people to get to know them, as you state I should? If they retreat from society and stop going to social events where we can all find something in common to enjoy together, how will we ever learn about each other? The more insular we are, the more likely violence increases when we do meet on the street, no?
So I'll say it again. I don't give a crap what they do with the convention. I dislike the characterization that they felt "unsafe" with gamers at large, and I really hope they keep coming to the less identity specific conventions and don't abandon it to "straights."
Agree?-
I think you are hung up on the definition of "safe". In gay culture (and in lots of minority cultures), a "safe space" is not just a place where you are free from the threat of physical violence. It's a place where you can trust that you can fully express yourself without fear of judgement or mental or physical abuse. To put it really simply, it's a place where you can be a guy, and kiss a guy on the lips, and not worry that someone is going to walk by and snicker and say "fag" under your breath.
I've been to gaming conventions. Some of them are better than others. But I don't think I can guarantee that wouldn't happen at even the best of them, and I *know* it would happen at the worst of them.
-
-
-
... when that guy killed himself
Hi, that guy still killed himself out of shame and fear. He killed himself. He's dead now. That's a guy who clearly didn't feel perfectly safe and happy being gay in New Jersey.-
He killed himself because his mother rejected him and kicked him out of the house when he came out ot her, and because he had terribly complex psychological problems going back years and was on cocktails of drugs to cope. The issues he had were not solely related to his sexuality. Don't screw around with me on this one I know the family.
What the roommate did was disgusting, but the response of the people of the state was to nail him to the wall, because popular sentiment was pretty overwhelming: Gay bashing. We don't like it.-
Clearly you know more details of this case than I, but I disagree with your assessment of the situation.
As you say, "his mother rejected him and kicked him out of the house when he came out ot her." This is a thing that happened to someone because he was gay. This isn't a one-off, isolated incident. This, and far worse, happen to people every single day. Yes, even in New Jersey or New York.
And 'nailing him to the wall' wasn't the response of "the people of the state," it was some of the people in NJ. That's what you're not grasping about this topic. Yes, lots of people are cool with the ho-mo-sexuals. No, not everyone is--enough to make people want safe spaces.
And, again, you're reading "safe" wrong.-
I'm not reading "safe" at all. I'm wondering, openly, what they meant by it. If by "safe" it's the same feeling as "I don't feel like talking about family issues with anyone but family", then that's fine. If they're implying physical danger at the cons, then I think they're wrong.
And to draw this to an agonizing conclusion, if it's the first "safe", then they'll probably still go to the big cons and not flee them. What is it about this you find so objectionable? Why do you feel that it would not be a loss for them to abandon the big cons? The gaming hobby belongs to all of us. They should not cede the big conventions, where the big money goes, to anyone. It would be bad for everyone.
What is it about that point that bothers you, Alice?
-
-
But that sounds like "accepting" rather than "safe".
And again, how is someone snickering at two dudes holding hands or two really ugly trannies in Sailor Scout costumes any different than laughing at the fat and sweaty Batman or the 600lb Stormtrooper? I mean, some people are gonna make fun of whatever..but that's not stopping these people from waving their freak flag high, so to speak. A dork convention, whatever it's flavor (gaming, comics, sci-fi, etc), is one of the most accepting places I can think of.-
Maybe it sounds more like accepting to you, but in the communities that use that terminology, those are accurate descriptions of the term. One could add "not have a bunch of straight guys come by to tell us how we're doing it wrong," but then one would be passive-aggressive.
I'm guessing you think geek cons are the most accepting places you can think of because you fit in very well there, and it's not a place where people use the same derogatory terms about you that they've heard behind their backs all their lives which communicate that they don't belong there, just as they don't belong in mainstream society. Of course they can wave their freak flag high, but is it so difficult to understand that sometimes you don't want to fight on that barricade and just be able to let your guard down?-
I don't subscribe to euphemisms. If you want the term to mean accepting, then call it accepting. Calling it "safe" with some sub-cultural tribal knowledge required just to their meaning behind the term if fucking ridiculous. That's what leads to goofy and confusing conversations such as this!
I think dork cons are accepting because I've been to a lot of them and seeing lots of non-hetero people laughing, carrying on, holding hands, making out, in costume, out of costume, having fun, being drunk, etc, just like everyone else. I won't say that 100% of people people attending are happy 100% of the time, and I won't say that there arn't assholes there. But that's true everywhere. Again, how is someone snickering at two dudes holding hands any different than someone snickering at the 400 pound guy in the Starfleet uniform?
No one's publically denouncing non-heteros or openly mocking them or anything, that shit so wouldn't fly with the attendees, hetero or non. Private mockery, that's an entirely different story, but again, how is someone snickering with their friends about two trannies in costume any different than snicking at the Batman with fat rolls and the pit stains? Again, public mockery (of any sort, not just sexuality) isn't really tolerated at the conventions I've gone to, by organizers and con-goers alike.
(I don't fit in that well at a con, but that's a different story entirely.)-
I think most people have no problem understanding that "safe" can mean "a place where we can show an important part of ourselves without having to fear mockery, insults, laughter, OR violence".
This reminds me quite a lot of the debate that I've read a bit of in the skeptic community, where recently the topic of sexual harrassment became a public issue. And a whole lot of (coincidentally) straight white dudes were saying "what sexual harrassment? no one likes that kind of thing and it OBVIOUSLY wouldn't be accepted at our events" - and they got in response from several women that actually, there are informal networks of women warning each other of some speakers and attendees, and that indeed, when sexual harrassment occurs at events the response is usually tepid. Now, you'd think that when hearing that, people who were unaware of it would say "holy shit, what should we do about this?" but of course a lot of people in that group instead doubled down and decided that since it's not a problem for them, the problem can't exist at all and the problem is the group that is being harrassed.
-
-
-
-
Why are you linking your definition of "safe space"? Are you trying to bootstrap an argument with same? What did THEY mean?
Look, this is getting tedious. I want everyone to still go to the big conventions, and if they REALLY feel unsafe then it should be addressed. If they meant physically unsafe that is a problem. I do not think it's fair to say you feel unsafe when it implies that your fellow gamers are a threat to you. I do not believe they are any bigger threat than the general population, and yet we don't need Gay Malls.
I don't think it's good if we all go into our little corners and hang out only with our "own kind." The idea is saddening to me. Do you really disagree with my sentiment that I HOPE THE GAYS COME TO THE CONS?
What the hell are we really arguing about?-
Safety vs Acceptance, best I can tell.
I agree 100% with ya. I do think it's unfair to claim that conventions are unsafe or not accepting of the non-hetros who want to attend. All the cons I've been to have been pretty accepting, but I'm by no means an expert.
I want all of us gamers to just be gamers and enjoy whatever we wanna enjoy. I want everyone to be happy and share our mutual interests together. -
Because that is, quite literally, the definition of "safe space" that is used within groups that have been historically marginalised. It is what "THEY" mean.
-
Oh, and if "they are [not] any bigger threat than the general population" is the best thing you can say, I think we have a whole lot of work to do.
I think we're arguing because you seem to see the fact that queer people see a need for an alternative con as the problem here, rather than what happens at mainstream cons to motivate that. While you say that you want queer people to come to cons, you seem very relucant to actually listen to their arguments and choose instead to debate the semantics of "safe space".-
As you seem to want to imply something sinister by my use of the word "they". Scare quotes are fun.
I probably do need some education, here, so help me out: What acts of violence occurred at the cons to merit this change? Please be specific
One other confusing part, for me at least. In one post you say it's "the safe space of a marginalized people" or similar, and in the very next post you imply that gays are in actual constant danger, both in general life in America and at gamer convention. So which safe do you think they were referring to, here?-
That part of my second post was mostly to express my amazement that you seem to think that as long as a group shows no more homo or transphobia than the general population, there's not really a problem. That's a low standard, and we should aim to be much, much better than that.
As people have said, repeatedly, safe space includes but is not limited to physical safety, but is most obviously about going to an event where you will not be laughed, stared or sneered at, mocked, bullied, or made to feel like an outsider just because you're queer.-
If you read my posts, you'd know that the obvious point I made was that if gamers are no more dangerous than the general population, then there is no need for a "safe" (in terms of safety from assault or threats) gamers con than there is a need for a separate, "safe" mall, just for gays and gay supporters. As I said right at the tippy top, they said "safe" and "accepting", in a way that implies an exclusionary quality to regular conventions. If in fact they just meant a place to really let their hair down, then they're not afraid of the regular conventions, and they're not afraid of "straight" attendees, and I'm not concerned in the least.
If they're implying that "the straights" at conventions make them fear for their safety, and if they are retreating from the larger conventions, then, lame.-
I just find it weird that you seem more offended than concerned. I just think you should start listening to them more rather than spend your time telling them how wrong they are.
Trust me, very few queer gamers will ever withdraw from mainstream gaming or society, because as Alice said, they've navigated that world for all their lives already; it's essentially everywhere.-
Not offended at all.
If they don't withdraw, that's good. This is not a life-or-death social issue, here. I made the comment that it was counterproductive to splinter the gaming community, if that is in fact what happened. Lots and lots and lots of responses later, and I've got some accusations that this is something emotional for me, from a lot of people who are themselves getting pretty wound up.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
I agree with TheMongbat, using the word "safe" implies that other conventions arn't physically safe. I think the word you're looking for is "accepting", but that also has a negative association with it.
As a normal non-uppity person, I don't care who goes where. I do think that this type of stuff does potentially lead to balkanization of gamers as a whole. Three cheers for just wanting to look at/accept people as gamers, rather than gay gamers or Christian gamers or whatever little sub-groups want to crop up.
I've been to a lot of cons, big and small, and being as a good percentage of the attendees are non-hetero..I think it's safe to say that people are more than free to express themselves however they see fit without fear of open public mockery/abuse. Sure, some people might snicker when seeing two dudes holding hands or seeing some trannies dressed as Sailor Moon, but how is that any different than chuckling at the fat Batman or the amazingly sweaty/stinky 500 pound Klingon? I'd figure they were prolly in the most accepting environment they could be at while a con, much less having to form their own.
And this might make me seem really unpopular, but I don't care: There's a lot of weirdo freaky sex stuff going on at cons, and I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't a way to silently promote that. I'm a prude, I'll admit, and I've got no problem with anything that consenting adults want to do to each other, but man...there's definitely some weirdo freaky sex stuff going on at conventions (and the largest con I've ever been to is Dragon*Con, so I can only imagine what the bigger cons are like). Especially with sexuality being one of the main draws....yeah.-
Yeah, that's pretty ignorant and offensive.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
I'm kind of loathe to talk about PAX, as I've been going since 2004 but here we go.
I'm not going to disagree with calling PAX a straight show. However, from my prospective there is at least a bit of LGBTQA culture at PAX Prime (in 2007 and maybe 2008 it also shared the center with a Gender Queer convention which was on the 6th floor).
This year PAX Prime has spawned the PAX Prime Pink Party, while it is not officially affiliated with PAX, it is there as a welcomed community run companion.
Is PAX comparable to GaymerCon? No. But I hope it will continue to grow more friendly and safe to everyone. I also hope that both the PPPP and GaymerCon do well and grow in the years to come.
While one panel and a community party aren't a lot, they are a start, and I can hope that with GaymerCon more attention will come to the topic, and it will help other conventions grow.
References:
http://prime.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/represent-gaymings-past-present-and-future
PPPP https://www.facebook.com/events/173951559405569
-
-
-
-
I support the elbow rubbing.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Is that a new D&D power word? So a 13 year old says that and now it's time to feel threatened at a gamer's convention? Let's go with all the other words that are thrown out there. The N-word is in full display, so let's create an African American Only gamer's convention. Separate but equal? Really?
Like I said, have whatever you want, but keep coming to the main conventions. And I hope the term "safe" was just a throw-away term and not implying that gays are in actual danger at conventions. Fully of gamers. In California.-
-
-
I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying here. I'm not threatened. I think that using words like "safe" denotes a particular perception that is unfair to the gaming community at large. If we have overt homophobes, it's going to run in the fractions of a %, were I to guess. Stating that as one of the reasons you're starting a separate convention makes me unhappy and I wonder what experience the founders can point to that made them feel unsafe with their fellow gamers.
I think the danger of suggesting I am personalizing this is that it could lead to falsely invalidating my argument, which I am certain is not your aim. Let me see if I can highlight this more succinctly:
1) "safe" was a poor choice of words, IMO. They were not in danger at the Cons.
2) Separate conventions don't bother me at all. Again, AT ALL. What bothers me is if it's a prelude to the balkanization of our hobby group. Splitting into 1000 little parts weakens us. Our primary reason for getting together at conventions should be to geek out. If all the little identity groups start running around and starting their own cons, and stop going to the big ones, it starts pulling apart the one thing that unites us (gaming) in favor of the things that "divide" us (could be a million different things.)
3) In short, little niche groups are great. Having a variety of different gaming cons is great. I wouldn't care if the LARPers wanted to have a special convention just for them, as long as they didn't abandon the regular Rennaissance Faires. However, the LANGUAGE of the announcement implies that they feel uncomfortable at the regular cons and I took it to imply that this convention may be a replacement, not in addition to, their attendance at the gamer cons. After all, if you feel "uncomfortable" or "unsafe" at the main Cons, why go to them? I do think that's a bad thing, if that's what happens.-
-
And sometimes, people feel uncomfortable because they feel uncomfortable. It's different when what they say doesn't imply villainy on the part of others. Someone says they don't feel "safe" at my home, I take that as an insult, particulary because I take pains to make guests feel comfortable. If someone says they don't feel "safe" among gamers, I take it as an insult to gamers. I believe them, and they need to believe me when I say it's a bit of a slight on their fellow gamers that they're feeling like they might get beat up at any moment. It's assuming and implying that the "straight" gamers might just decide to go after them, which is a ridiculous thing to expect.
Why don't they feel safe? What happened?
And to get back to the original point, it worries me. If they ARE feeling threatened, then they won't come to the main conventions anymore. They'll drop back, fade from the brotherhood of geeks, and I believe that weakens us all, at a time when gaming is becoming a bigger part of culture.
I'd like to ask them what they meant by "safe". If they feel physically threatened then steps should be made to address concrete concerns.-
-
They don't disappear for anyone. So to feel unsafe is to abandon what is yours? Gaming is theirs. The big conventions belong to everyone. It will be a shame if they cede the big conventions to "straights" and hide in their little enclaves. I'd prefer they do both.
-
-
-
-
I just think it's notable how much exception you're taking.
1. Safe doesn't have to mean there's a literal danger at a con. At the same time, I've met enough gamers to know that it takes all types, which means I'm sure there are some homophobe asshole gamers. I'm not going to play the How Many Cons Have You Been To Game, but I'll assume we've both been to enough. I've seen shitty people. Plus! I think you're interpreting their search for a safe space to be a wholly literal one. I read that and took that they were trying to define a space as something more like a cultural "space".
2. Man dude if you don't like seperated conventions make you own. That's how they work. Like, you seriously have some anime, furry, bronies and steampunk nerds to go words with. Because they've all gone and made their own cons.
2a. Some cons deserve to Die. Trends shift and change. http://marcon.org/wordpress/ is not nearly the amazing culture powerhouse it was 10 years ago.
3. Yo defensive bro. Let them gay out and you'll see them at Dragon*Con, SDCC and whatever-
Are you actually reading what I wrote?
Your replies:
2: What are you talking about? Sorry, I meant, what the hell are you talking about? I just got done saying at least half a dozen times that separate conventions are awesome. Have a LARPer convention. I don't give a shit. Variety will pull more people in. If you can derive a meaning from what I said that is the exact opposite of what the words conveyed, then we are at an impasse.
2a: I don't know how this is pertinent. Are you saying that the main cons might die off, and we'll all just balkanize in little subcliques? That would be lame. If you disagree, let me know.
3: Yo defensive bro line: Stop this. You made an attempt to invalidate my argument by saying I was making this "personal". When I said you were wrong, you accuse me of being defensive. This is not even 101 level tomfoolery. I think you are letting your personal history of arguing with me, sometimes with substantial emotion, drag you into a place you should not go. Cut it out.-
I didn't even know that we've talked before. Have we? All I'm saying is that you have a lot of energy in not understand why people would also want a safe place, and that amount of energy has to be coming from somewhere
You seem to remember some history more than I. I honestly can't remember us having a conversation before. I'm just responding to the words you've posted in this thread, nothing else. So uhm erm, you should invalidate your accusations of me acting personal history, given that you're actually acting on personal history. Which is pretty funny, when you think about it.-
If you're having issues with memory, then by all means check Shackhistory. I'm sure it's all there (when it's working).
Seriously, though, I can only assume this is more personal for you than for me, whether it's subject matter or history, I can't be sure. Why are you consistently misrepresenting my statements and then arguing against those misrepresentations? And again with the "you seem to have a lot invested in this" trope. I'm starting to wonder if this is projection.
I don't know if that's a better explanation than Like I said, have whatever you want, but keep coming to the main conventions.
And yet you seem to think I am decrying sub conventions themselves. Might want to get that memory checked after all.-
Why should I check, I don't remember us talking enough to care. Yes, please, let me refresh myself on what was likely a delightful conversation given your posts.
And yeah, you did seem to be decrying a specific sub conventions actually, via disbelieving their need. I don't really care, I don't think you seem to understand why people would want this, which is really the more notable point.-
Don't get so emotional. You're taking this way personal, dudebro. Step back and chill. You don't have to be so nasty.
Please show me where I said I didn't want the conventions at all, because I'm pretty sure you're completely wrong, which is an even more notable point.
Cool logo, but what is this about needing a "safe" and "welcoming" convention environment? That implies that they don't feel safe around gamer geeks at large, does it not? I don't think that's very fair.
I guess as long as they still come to the regular conventions it's fine, but I don't want gamers to become balkanized and tied up in any identity grouping other than "we like to play video games". We're not so huge a demographic that we can afford to split up our convention-attending population into a dozen little subgroups. If we end up with Spanish-speaking gamers conventions, and then Christian/Jewish/Muslim gamers conventions, and on and on, it's going to be a drag. There's so much in this country already where people are hyper-aware of the race/religion/political beliefs of others. Can't we just get together and cry over Zelda without wondering if the other guy's a vegan?
Where in that could you get the sense that I disbelieved their need? Forget need. I don't need to be convinced they need anything. If they WANT to do it, they can. What I didn't like is the potential implication that they were threatened by the average convention goer, which I find hard to believe.
That is what I said. If you don't know what I meant by "balkanized", it's a term used to describe a situation where a natural affinity group is torn apart by often arbitrary, certainly secondary concerns, with the end result being a weakened group.
Seriously, geedeck, you can go all breezy "err uhm I dunno you dude, and I don't care enough to look anything up" all you want, but at LEAST try to keep the thread of what was actually said in the posts straight in your mind. If you can show me somewhere that I decried these subgroup threads, you'd get a correction/retraction from me on that post, and then I'd point you to the literally too many posts where I said that sub-interest conventions are great. My issue with the situation is crystal clear to anyone willing to actually read what I wrote.
-
-
Wow, you're really not faking this, are you? Filed away for the next time you comment on a thread. If that was your book report synopsis, the F would already be on the cover.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
[deleted]
-
-
Gamer geeks also have a tendency to by sexist, misogynistic, and homophobic; I can understand wanting to have a convention where you don't have to deal with that shit. We may be tolerant here on the shack, but sign onto voice/text chat in pretty much any popular game and 99% of what you'll read or hear is "faggot", "bitch", "bitch-ass faggot", and variations thereof.
-
-
Will the babes at the duke nukem booth still be female?
-
Yes but they'll be even less interested in you.
-
this seems rather stupid
-
Can straight people go?
-
You can only go to straightcon, sorry.
-
Yup.
I'm Straight! Can I come?
Of course! We want to create a gaming and tech event that focuses on queer issues and themes, not the other way around. Similar to Gay & Lesbian film festivals and cultural events, we welcome all and hope to provide a fun, exciting, vibrant community that is in no way closed off from the rest of the gaming community.
-
-
-
I was doing the 'richard castle speechless' motion at half of these replies. You've reminded me why most people dont get any of this.
-
Whites:1.2 Billion =17%
Blacks:1 Billion=15%
Asians: 2.1 Billion=31%
Middle Easterners/Indians: 1.675 Billion= 25%
Native Americans/Mestizos: 250 Million= 4%
Others: 536 million= 8%
-
-
Is this the convention where all the dirty whores lez out?
-
[deleted]
-
-
-
Tell him it's a "Death to The Great Satan" convention?
-
-
wow... some people have too much free time to rant on this...
-
-
-
-
What, precisely, do you take issue with, Gregg? That I want gays to come to the larger conventions even if they make their "own" conventions? Oh, yes. How horrible. Why the hell would I want such nasties about, don't you know.
Perhaps the one with issues is you. If you have a problem with gays to the point where you would encourge them to compartmentalize themselves away from the rest of us, shame on you, sir.-
-
Mind boggling for you, abrasion. You did not read it right. What I said was that I consider it a loss for everyone if they feel they can't come to the regular conventions. They are welcome. They have something to contribute. If they disappear into their own little convention AND eschew the big ones, that sucks.
That does NOT mean that I disapprove of any group having a sub-convention. I was concerned that the "hostile work environment" trope was possibly being presented. I was, again, clear that I wasn't certain that they were indicting the cons as "dangerous" places for gays, but that if they were in fact implying that, I thought it an unfair characterization of the average attendee.
I made that clear in my very first post. Are we all such a bunch of hypersensitive people that we can't bear to be in the same room with people who don't 100% agree with us?
That's what I said, dude. That's all I said. Anything else is either your bad reading comp or your desire to see something that is not there.-
-
That's what I said, brainiac. I only added that it's a bit absurd to be afraid of gamers at the Pax.
Oh, and I said something about straights missing out if gays stop going. WOW, controversial, I know.-
-
I take that as your "empty tank" sign is going blinky blinky.
-
Whoops, aim that at abrasion.
As for not relaxing around gays, what the fuck are you talking about? If I can't relax around gays then I probably didn't sleep for 3 years back in my 20's.-
-
Haha, WIPEOUT!
Kow said I was uncomfortable with gays. How is denying that suddenly a catalyst for this beautiful Abrasion gem?
-
-
If you could relax around gays you would know some of them better and you would know what 'safe places' are for and why they're good. And if you knew, you wouldn't have annoyed the shit out of everyone with this massive display of ignorance and poutyness about not being a part of someone elses thing.
-
I don't want to be part of their "thing", Kow. I want to make sure they stay part of ALL of our thing. Or would you prefer if I said "cool, they prolly don't wanna be here anyway, let them go into their little con and good riddance."
Seriously, wtf are you thinking?-
I would prefer it if you said "Hey that's great, I have some gaymer friends and I want them to have a good time without having to worry about weird nerds staring at them"
And you don't have to worry gaymers will still come to mainstream cons cause they have good straight friends who they wanna see there and hang out with (just not you).-
Aww, don't get all sore and nasty, bro. If you can't have a grown up conversation then just go to bed. What horrors that the bad Mongbat worried about splintering the gamer community.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
[deleted]
-
Stupidest idea ever. What does sexual orientation have to do with gaming?
-
Really? Maybe getting called "fag" every 10 minutes when gaming online isn't their idea of inclusive...
To quote Tashtego above: "Great idea. Donated. Everybody needs a safe place to chill with like minded folks. Straight folks, and esp. straight white dudes, don't get this because for them that place is "pretty much the entire world""-
Unfair knock on straight white dudes. Compassion lets you understand everyone's point of view; the human point.
-
compassion? I wonder if religion and politics will get that memo. it's funny to see you advocate this ONE GROUP FITS ALL WOOOO KUM BA YAAAAAAAAAAAAAA bullshit when you know that will never happen, and people are divisive as ever - if not more so.
you don't want gamers segmented out, but you want... everything else segmented.
how do you struggle with this conundrum of hypocrisy?
-
-
So this is all about being butt-hurt (lol) over the word "fag"? Then these guys have other issues and should seek therapy, not game conventions.
Louie CK has a great tirade on this, "faggot" has a different meaning nowadays, deal with it. "Quit being a faggot and suck that dick!"
-
-
Having had a former co-worker who took 5 years to come out due to fear of how it would affect his career, even though the gaming industry is just about the most GBLT-friendly industries there is; quite a bit apparently. And that's just the people who work on games, I can't imagine how hard it must be for a GBLT gamer to play any sort of multiplayer title when every other word being uttered is "faggot".
-
Yeah, but the other word is the N-word. I take that as people realize that "fuck" is no longer verbotten, so they are looking for the newest socially atomic word to drop. They don't mean it, per se. They're just assholes looking for the biggest bomb.
-
While I'll assume that the vast majority of people yelling faggot and nigger mean no ill will, it creates an environment where those with ill will feel comfortable to yell faggot and nigger, thus creating a culture that embraces their bigotry even if unintended.
Then you have all those who are just beginning to experience what bigotry even is (read young people) and may willfully begin a life of bigotry without even knowing it trying to fit in with the culture they surround themselves with.
-
Next up: Gay ComicCon, African-American LAN parties, vegan gun shows, midget boardgame conventions...
-
-
-
The absurd focus on the meaning of "safe" also overlooks something GaymerCon can do which regular cons won't provide: the regular con stuff.
GaymerCon can devote as many panels as it jolly well pleases to things like queer representation in games, or queer developers talking about stuff, or queer this queer that and the queer other. Regular cons have token panels, certainly, but they're just that--token.
Perhaps queers might have an interest in such things.-
And this is where you an I completely agree, Alice. I was pretty clear back a couple hours, now. If it's "we want gay geekdom center stage" then I applaud it. If it was "We are scared to go to the regular cons" then one I disagree in their threat assessment, and two, I don't want these gay cons to be the place they run to.
In short, I would like the Gay cons to be an advance, not a retreat. Does that make sense?-
"An advance, not a retreat" does make sense but it's quite obviously both at the same time.
And I cannot fathom why you are freaking out so much about imagined and clearly-not-going-to-happen fallout from one single convention which hasn't even happened once yet.-
I'm not freaking out. I am speculating on the degree of discomfort that part of our gaming bretheren might be feeling, rightly or wrongly. And I know enough about movements (and I do consider gaming to be a bit of a social movement) to know how they grow and how they are weakened. My comments simply evince a desire for us to stress our commonalities and love of the medium. If we break apart, that is, well, that is bad.
I'm no more emotionally invested than you, Alice. You have spent a lot of time on this thread, just like me, making your points.
As for your "they are the same" statement, you are wrong. If they cede the "normal" conventions, they are ceding their rightful position as participants in our shared hobby. They are running away when they should not. Running away into little enclaves is how you lose power. Organizing in enclaves and then standing in the public square is how you advance a cause.
I find your "clearly not going to happen" comment a tad too confident. If they feel "unsafe", and franky there are a few gay posters on this thread who said they understand the sentiment, then there's already a problem.-
[deleted]
-
Don't quit your "day job".
-
-
You mis-read. I did not say that the advance and retreat are the same, rather that GaymerCon is an advance and a retreat at the same time.
It's a celebration of queer people wot like and do video games. Hooray! It's also a place where a marginalised group of oft-abused people can feel they're not judged for their sexuality. Huzzah!
Not everyone wants to fight all the time, sometimes it's nice to simply get away from other people's bullshit. Some people don't even want to fight at all ever, and that's perfectly acceptable.
And yes, the world's queers are clearly not going to withdraw en masse from every video games convention. To suggest they would, no matter how great GaymerCon turns out to be, is absurd.-
http://www.shacknews.com/article/75165/lgbt-convention-gaymercon-secures-kickstarter-funding?id=28676064#item_28676064
http://www.shacknews.com/article/75165/lgbt-convention-gaymercon-secures-kickstarter-funding?id=28676366#item_28676366
Yes, absurd that anyone would think that.
And actually you mis-read. I got what you said. Gaymercon is an advance if they continue to go to regular cons as well, and a retreat if they run off and go only to their we're-all-the-same-on-this-single-facet-of-our-existence con.
-
-
-
-
neil patrick harris makes a living playing a heavily cisgendered womaniser
almost all homosexual characters on TV are based off gay best friend aka "carries pet queer" archetypes and are written primarily for the amusement of women not gay men
lady gaga writes pop music and her lyrical content and political message pass through the ears of her listeners like shit passes through your colon
Saying that visible homosexuality in pop culture indicates any kind of acceptance, and then going further to say we have a 'gay' culture and that only places like Saudi are straight, is almost like saying that because lil wayne sells a lot of records black people don't have any problems anymore.
You need to think a little harder about this shit.-
OK. Let's think this through. What will it take for you to see indications of ANY kind of acceptance? What is the standard?
-
I'd imagine the only relevant measure is weather or not people in that community say they feel accepted.
-
whether :(
-
-
-
Young guys also think racing each other up the parkway at 100mph is awesome. They'll grow out of it.
Gay marriage: Let's get gov't out of marriage altogether and let people call it what they want. /agree.
Gay characters show up for hooks and plot points. Sexuality in movies really only exists for romantic reasons. Straight romance is going to reel in a higher % of viewers. That's not about acceptance, it's about making money. Best you're gonna get is probably Apollo and Midnighter, and I get that it's only in comic books but you gotta start somewhere.
Oh, and Dumbledore.-
Young guys also think racing each other up the parkway at 100mph is awesome. They'll grow out of it.
Childhood matters, being on the margins of social life in HS and college fucking sucks for those kids, why would you think that's cool just because it's a "phase"? Do you need to be reminded that gay kids kill themselves during this "phase"?-
I hate to say this, but young kids kill themselves over a lot of stuff. The 3 suicides in my high school were over girls and not getting into the right college. It's tragic but you can't stop everyone from hurting themselves.
You made a very broad statement about young men, one that was unfair, but I addressed it. Taken more personally, there was a guy in my brother's frat (and I was not in a frat, long story) who was my brother's good buddy, and my friend, too. He was a nice kid, and it became more and more clear that he was gay and not willing to come out (Hispanic parents, supposedly they're not good with gays, according to this kid). When he came out, the entire frat was happy for him. "WTF took you so long, dude?" They didn't give a shit, and they're those young douchey kids you seem to lump into one group.
Not everyone will love you, not everyone will hate you. I don't pretend like gays don't have a harder ramp than most, but wtf not everyone is going to be your best friend.-
A nice story.
I don't pretend like gays don't have a harder ramp than most, but wtf not everyone is going to be your best friend.
That's great that you have a healthy ego but again telling people to just harden the fuck up is not really useful to anyone and that you don't understand why that's not useful is frustrating and makes people annoyed with you okay bye.-
Yeah, well look at all the love and support I'm getting from guys like you. I'm not going to saw my wrists open or go running from the Shack because of it. I think it's hilarious that my wishes for people to keep coming to the big conventions is seen by you as a demand that they "harden up".
Ok, then don't harden up. Sit in your corners and cry all day. I didn't say I expected it, I said I would regret it.-
-
-
You don't know me at all. What a lame, horrible attempt to pigeonhole someone and invalidate their opinions. You really are a piece of work.
-
-
And getting lamer, apparently...
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
I have a different perspective than you, is all. I think that a great deal of social interaction in this country centers around sometimes-exclusionary identity politics, and lots of that exclusion is self-exclusion. It's destructive and weakening. I don't much care for it. This does not mean that I don't want people to have their "home groups." I just don't want people going into ethnic/sex identity/racial ghettos, where we're all in different worlds and just curse at each other on the highway as we cut each other off.
You tend not to be able to hate people that you know.-
-
And you're making a deeper logical mistake in thinking that acceptance will improve if these groups retreat from broader society. Self exclusion of minorities is what leads to oppression and lack of empathy. What if African Americans only went to all-Black schools and all-Black colleges? Would that help or hurt social integration, do you think?
-
RIP GaymerCon, you died so no one would have to retreat from society
Oh wait, no I mean, I'm still insisting that you think things are good enough to where self-exclusiveness is a greater issue than the intolerance that otherwise exists. This leap of logic you have made is the flawed basis of your logical approach in this situation.
It's like you're worried that the weight of oranges on the planet earth are going to throw us into the sun. (I am making an analogy about how miniscule forces are being conflated with grandiose effects)-
I suggest you read your history and gain some perspective. Yes, let's have "separate but equal" conventions, and if they're afraid to come to the bigger ones (the straights one, I guess), then oh well, right? We shouldn't address that at all. We'll just chalk it up to straights being homophobes and agree it's best that the gays go to their own parties and stay away from the big ones.
Are you really not getting that I just want them to continue to contribute to the larger conventions? Is this not computing with you? I don't care if they want to have their own little clubs. I want them going to both. They enrich the larger conventions with their presence. Either you don't understand that or you think there's nothing to be lost by them not being there. If that's the case, well, we disagree, chief.
And yes, it would be a loss for everyone, not just gays, not just straights, but everybody.
-
Because they WANT to be separate, so that would make it OK, right? Because they're asking to be separate? Holy cow would you ever fit in down in Alabama in the 60's.
Buddy, I didn't ever say that that's what they wanted. I said that IF that was where it was going, lame. I haven't taken a poll. I read the announcement and frankly there are several people who read it the same way.
Last time: Having their own conventions= COOL. Avoiding the broader conventions= SAD FACE.
Get it now?-
-
Haha what a shock.
-
-
-
Who are you again? Oh....
-
-
Well, there's nothing for me to go on, since your contribution was a whine that I posted too much. What kind of reponse do you think you deserve?
-
-
Haha or what?
-
-
I really do have to go to bed, so it's your lucky day. One must wonder who looks like the ass, since I count four out of four posts that didn't contribute a damn thing, right or wrong. You're the equivalent of the guy in the back of the room, just out of sight, yelling "yeah!" or "no!" while two adults try to have a conversation. Work on that. Night.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
see: religion, politics... why are you suddenly on this crusade (lol) to unite? your mantra has been the exact opposite. everyone should be an individual with no constraints, right? so why are you kum ba ya all of the sudden?
as a reminder, the upper echelon of our government is more entrenched than EVER, and they WANT to be separate...-
Having different opinions is not incompatible with wanting people to be able to engage in congress with one another. Society works best when individuals interact, unafraid, in groups of their choosing, and when those groups reach across ethnic and social boundries.
In short, it's good to see everyone sit down at the dinner table, together, even if it's just once every two weeks. It's not mandated, but it helps to ease some of the tension, and maybe someone will learn something.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Related to your point, a lot of people in my city have been having a debate about the future of "gay bars" and specifically about how they fit into a future, more inclusive society. On one hand you have the folks that say they don't really belong because if society were more accepting, nobody would feel the need to self-exclude themselves from the daily discourse of society. The other side says that there is something that makes you unique and that you are a part of a minority group and as a result, so it's only natural to want to spend time with the group of people most like you.
Really the debate here is no different than the points you're trying to make in this thread. We should all be striving for the more inclusive society whereby everyone is accepted for who they are and not feel ostracised for being different. In a perfect world, there wouldn't really be a need or a place for a GLBT gamer convention. However that said, you're never going to get rid of the fact that people in minorities tend to like to spend time with their particular minority group and to discuss the issues pertinent to them.-
There will always be Irish pubs, but I hope that's not the only place the Irish go.
-
[deleted]
-
-
-
-
-
How is he making crazy posts?
He disagrees with the idea of the homo-centric con because he wants to keep the hobby inclusive, rather than splintering it into different special interest groups.
He didn't understand the tortured definition of "safe", which is understandable because it's being used as a euphemism for "accepted" in this context.
On multiple occasions he's expressed nothing but a positive, accepting sentiment for non-heteros. How in the hell can this be seen as anti-homosexual?
Christ, just because someone disagrees with the premise and doesn't understand logic behind such an encounter..they're automatically anti non-hetero?-
-
[deleted]
-
-
Abrasion you have resorted to commenting in relief at the posts of others and talking about me as though I am not here. I would say this is sad, but for you, it is becoming typical.
-
-
If that was your MO, then you would never have cause to jump onto any of my posts. Perhaps you will hold to this interesting standard going forward. I do not believe I have ever had anything to say to you unless it was a response to some impulsive nonthought you splattered on a thread I was participating in.
-
I try not to hold a grudge. I've got awful memory and I debate with people on this website ALL the time - often in my harsh manner. I can just as easily say someone is awesome as I can they are a tool moments earlier.
It means a few (but honestly not many) shackers actively hate me - but surprisingly I'm not one to memorise usernames unless they are real ongoing pricks to me and I'm not giving the one or two there is the joy of being named.
Long story short, I hold no gruge. I think you're fucking nuts today but I'm not going to respond to you as "that fucking nuts" guy in future unless this kind of thing kept going on and on, so have no fear.
(Regardless, you've hijacked a subthread which was actually about the irony of a pot calling a kettle black and taken it for yourself - there's something poetic about that)-
Interesting if you keep to that. I'd love to see you bash into threads less often unless there's something important to say. Mostly it's "It's the Mongbat. What did you expect" and similar useless B.S.
-
You seem overly concerned about this. I know the exact behaviour you're talking about because I get it all the time. I have no intention of doing that. If you say something cool, I tell you - you're cool, if you say something shit, I say it's shit - it's how I roll.
Relax Mongbat, some of the people here are probably furiously jotting down your name in their mental notepad of "shackers I hate" (right next to mine no doubt) however I'm not. Hell I even told multisync he was cool the other day and that guy is a goddamn <removed in order to avoid ban>-
Let them jot, let them jot.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
One point I would mention was that the language was "welcoming and safe". Two separate descriptors. I assumed welcoming meant "accepted" which if anything meant that "safe" must mean.... safe. I could be wrong and that's why I said "if" in my first posts.
-
-
Let me help you out, since by discussion I am guessing you tried to, what? Explain what you read?
Prohomo.
Don't want any group to retreat exclusively to same-status enclaves. I support interest groups and Gay-specific conventions are a great idea. If it means that gay gamers feel threatened and they're backing away from regular conventions, and I have no opinion whether they are or not, I think that's a little overly sensitive and shows a lack of faith in their fellow gamer. If they're just making a subgroup because it's fun, I don't just agree with it, I encourage it. I was not the only one on this thread to take "safe" as meaning "safe from harm and ridicule" instead of the softer "safe to be myself" interpretation.
Want the other bona fides? Believe that getting gov't OUT of marriage to be the best solution to the gay marriage battle. Everyone gets the same civil unions, same tax treatment, married/unified or not, and let people call it whatever the fuck they want. Hospital visitation cleared across the board. Married couples already can't call the medical shots for each other w/o a POA anyway, so that's a red herring. Can we now talk about taxes?
Pro gay adoption. Pro AIDS vaccine. Anti-hate crime legislation, but I can understand the reasoning behind it, namely guys getting their asses kicked and having the cops laugh it off. I get it. I just don't like the solution to that problem.
Now you and your friend can rest easy.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
This is utterly stupid,
Biologically being gay is not viable and hence not normal, there will always be a majority of people being hard-wired to reject this idea, and by hard-wired I mean from a pure physical procreation standpoint, without any scientific intervention creating a child will always require two people of opposite sex. No matter what you feel about this, this is reality, the time when being gay is considered 100% 'normal' will only arrive when the human race have removed all biological shackles. And I don't see that happening during the lifetime of the nearest generations.
-
-
I'm quite interested to see these arguments. Because the examples I've seen with gay animals in other species only seems to cement the fact that its almost always misdirected sexual urges.
And I'm saying this as an pure scientific endeavour.
Although not personally gay, I have absolutely no issues with gay people. But I do think the subject of acceptance and its place in a pure evolutionary perspective is very interesting to discuss.
-
-
So what you're saying is that you've got a strong visceral, hard-wired reaction to man-on-woman anal sex? Or sex with a condom? 99% of straight women have sex using some form of birth control during their lives, I don't really see how chance of procreation equals normality and likeliness of social acceptance.
-
no, what I'm saying is that many (if not most) of choices we make as people steams from hard-wired connections in our biological shell. Sure we can pride ourself to acknowledge the fact that we can rise above many of the so called primal urges.
Yet again when it comes to self-preservation, procreation and sex in particular these urges will be so strong that sanity and contemplation will suffer. That does not mean (or excuse a behaviour) that we are drooling knuckle heads. But what is means is that as an biological entity the 'purpose' is to live and procreate to pass on you genes, this purpose (let's call it that) is the very reason any of us exists. Not only that, but also every generation before you back until the very first life-form.
Being gay mean you set aside this process, I have absolutely no personal quarrels with this, but I'm also humble to the notion that this also means that it will probably clash with what most people consider 'normal' (in a biological sense).
-
[deleted]
-
well in this case I refer to 'normal' as what a majority of people would behave/believe. Sure its a social construct but you are also aware that the human mind is extremely observant to any event that lies outside the 'normal' (here its used again) everyday life. This might be any different physical trait, or skin color etc. I see this as a side-effect of a a hard-wired self-preservation mode in our brain "beware of anything out of the ordinary".
Yes I agree for some reason there seems to be (at least recent) a genetic (or biochemical) reason for homosexuality. But how it fits in with evolution I'm not so sure. What has happened (evolutionary) that means this is a path that is growing ?
-
-
-
That's interesting and all but also completely pulled out of your ass. There have been times in the past when homosexuality was pretty much considered 100% normal. I'm speaking primarily of the Romans and Greeks who seem to have few if any qualms about homosexuality itself.
-
homosexuality as a sexual act and as a life 'choice' is different.
If you choose exclusively to live your life with a same sex partner then you also forgo the option to procreate (set aside scientific methods). What you are talking about is something else, at least from what I've learned.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
[deleted]
-
-
-
-
Good thing they're not doing that, as they clearly state right there on the Kickstarter page.
-
-
Cool idea. Terrible pitch. Is this what most kickstarter videos are coming to? Maybe I'm just not on board with SMBC's inside jokes, because that was hard to watch.
-
You don't know who GlaDOS is?
-
I get the references. It doesn't help make it less groan worthy.
-
-
-
If people feel there is a need for a convention like this, then there is a need for it. It's not up to anyone else to tell them otherwise.
-
If this comes to fruition, I'll go - I think that it will be cool to meet and interact with people just like me. To the points above, it's very difficult to meet gay gamers and gay geeks as there simply isn't too many of them out there. A convention like this is a great way of re-enforcing that there are indeed other gay gamers / gay geeks out there and that you should be proud of that.
As Alice pointed out, I think that there will be a lot of panels at this convention that I would find interesting whereas the main gaming community would not. Let's talk about how gay Link is or whether Samus was a lesbian - stupid stuff like that will make the con fun for the core audience. -
-
-
agreed, I used to train on 10* speed turbo just so i could go to the arcade and feel like I was playing in bullet time
-
-
-
-
-
[deleted]
-
They probably will! But if they're looking for content that is more specifically geared towards them while retaining a focus on video games, this alternative will now exist too.
-
[deleted]
-
I guess I could try that but I've never seen the point! It's never seemed like a good way to help people understand things, which is (ideally) the end goal of talking about this at all
-
-
-
That's just ridiculous; they already go to normal game conventions, and deal with a whole bunch of shit online that you obviously have no understanding or appreciation for. This con is a good idea not only because it provides a safe space for queer people and a forum to discuss queer issues above and beyond what mainstream cons can manage, it's also helpful in providing a sense of belonging to a group that's like you and that has your back which makes it that much easier to stand up for yourself and to ultimately feel as relaxed and welcomed at manistream cons.
-
[deleted]
-
Since you're generalising the experiences of the small number of people you know across all people from all classes, races, backgrounds, upbringings, religions and locations, no, maybe you don't.
-
[deleted]
-
[deleted]
-
[deleted]
-
-
-
-
So you have to be "normal" to be accepted? It seems kind of absurd to hear that on a geek forum where a lot of people, some 10-15 years ago when they were nerdy, awkward teenagers, were in the position of bemoaning the world for trying to push them into "normal" hobbies
It's also ridiculous because I bet most of the people who will be attending GaymerCon do normal stuff all the time, but they also want to have a place where they can discuss queer-specific issues in regards to gaming, and obviously it's not already "well understood" enough from their perspective, and since I'm not in their shoes, I'll take their word for it. -
So you sister has two gay partners? Or two straight partners... If your sister is gay, and has a partner, you don't really have to say the partner is gay (twice even). It's assumed.
But being gay is one thing, if you're gay in a community like gamers, you are ridiculed. If you don't think so, then you only play single player games. Basically, hanging out with gamers is not at all like going to the park/movies/etc. People don't generally point at gay people anymore and yell "queers!" etc. Online, they do. Except in gaming, you're gay, whether you are or not. It's a general insult.
-
-
What does that have to do with gaming?
Dealing with that shit online has nothing to do with game conventions. And don't tell me they receive the same verbal (or in addition physical) abuse at normal "straight" game conventions in real life.
Like the shacker above said, this whole thing is kinda backwards if they are striving for acceptance. The common interest at heart is gaming, why mix it up with minority issues?-
This, and the post above saying that they don't want gaming conventions to be splintered into special interest factions, seems rather wilfully blind to me. Why mix it up with minority issues? Because they already are! These issues exist in pretty much every social setting already, it's just that the majority group to whose interests such settings usually cater are blind to the problems of historically marginalised groups. When such groups try to bring them to light and to cope with them in a positive, outgoing manner, they are not the problem, the problem is to make common spaces as open and inclusive as you think they already are. To do that, "safe spaces" can be very important to vocalize more clearly which issues actually exist.
-
Why mix it up with minority issues? Because they already are!
Bull. Shit. If you are referring to the online "fag" talk.-
No, I don't expect that kind of behaviour to be especially prevalent.
-
-
-
Agreed. Likewise, as a straight I don't go to gaming conventions to do anything else than.. see gaming-related stuff, presentations and maybe play a game or two.
I don't see how that's different with non-straights. This is just silly and goes only in the opposite direction when they segregate everything.-
This was my original thought, but then I remembered every game of LoL I've ever played. If I were gay, and I had to listen to people spout 'faggot' at me and everyone else, every game I was in, I'd likely want to create my own world where that word had no power over anyone. I hate to admit it, but gays and blacks take far too much shit in multiplayer gaming. It certainly goes beyond "they should just ignore it" or, "we don't really mean it". Ironically, 90% of the time when someone calls me 'faggot' or 'nigger', I tell them I am actually that, and about 75% of the time, they either apologize or quietly stop doing it. If you are one of those people, just don't do it.
-
-
-
-
-
This seems like a neat idea, though I'll never be able to attend it since it's so far away! I suppose the other issue is that if I was going to blast a bunch of money on going anywhere I'd much rather attend ShackCon instead
-
[deleted]
-
