Unreal Engine 4 and Epic's 'responsibility' to push next-gen consoles
While fans speculate about the hardware powering the next console generation, Epic has unveiled the wraps engine that'll power plenty of next-gen games. Unreal Engine 4 will bring new tech and tools to please players and developers alike.
Quite literally unreal
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replyAlice O'Connor posted a new article, Unreal Engine 4 and Epic's 'responsibility' to push next-gen consoles.
While fans speculate about the hardware powering the next console generation, Epic has unveiled the wraps engine that'll power plenty of next-gen games. Unreal Engine 4 will bring new tech and tools to please players and developers alike.-
Just for a little context, Epic says it's a part of their 'responsibility' to push console makers for powerful hardware because, well, they've licensed their engine some 150 times. In light of this, I don't know of any other game engine that's become so pervasive in the gaming world, and if there is I'd expect them to talk closely with console makers, too.
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Have to agree with them. Beside the fact the console makers have been sitting on their laurels for at least the last couple years (imo), and will likely stretch out the next cycle beyond its fullest, it already sounds as if they're taking a lazy approach to next-gen plans. A little persuasion from engine makers can do nothing but benefit gamers and developers alike.
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Honestly I'd rather have a more conservative console as far as power goes for the next gen systems. I don't want to pay $500-600 for the next systems. Also the more complex the more power and heat they create.
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Power draw and thermal output have been going down. The GTX 680 draws 300w at full load, and sits at a respectably cool 85c. If consoles go for a 2014 launch then they could house even more powerful h/w which would run even cooler with lower draw due to further advances in architecture and fabrication.
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85 C is not "cool" when considering a console-sized box. That temperature is an inferno. Consoles will use mobile GPUs, but there are some pretty fast mobile GPUs these days.
The best bang-for-buck spec to upgrade is memory (both system and graphics). RAM is really cheap these days, compared to the time the current-gen consoles were taped out (2005). 512 MB is tiny for high-graphics games these days; devs have to make concessions like level segmenting or texture streaming in order to not run out of memory. The Bayonetta development commentary is an interesting look at this; Kamiya mentions a number of sections that had to be one-way gated to free memory for the upcoming level sections. Even then, the last level had to be cut in half on the PS3 version, probably due to the 256 MB system memory (though it did give you a practice screen as Jeanne, which was awesome, especially if you pressed L1).
Hopefully both MS and Sony are speccing 2 GB of system memory, if not 4 GB, plus 1 GB of video RAM. Mid-class gaming PCs have been at that spec since 2009.-
Yes, they would be dumb not to put AT LEAST 2GB of memory. The beauty of a closed system though is that developers (especially after a couple years experience) get the kind of power out of that hardware than they would on a similar PC. Saying the 360 and PS3 were "tapped out" in 2005.... that's going a bit far though. :)
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PCs could run Crysis in 06 but, to this day, with all the engine upgrades, with all the 'advances' and familiarity developers have consoles can't run Crysis as it is on the PC. When you compare screenshots it's a night and day difference if only because of the decrease in foliage and inferior lighting. When you add the difference in textures it becomes readily apparent how insufficient the h/w is in consoles, then, and now.
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I meant "taped out"; that's terminology for the finalization of a hardware design. It's a term borrowed from CPU design, where the die masks would be taped together, and "tape out" is when they finalize the design. The 360 and PS3 hardware specs were finalized about a year before release so the factory tooling could get ready.
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Given the console will not be out until 2014, at the earliest, and will most likely not be refreshed for four years (meaning internal upgrades, not another next-gen), I would much rather see 2 Gb of VRAM to compliment the 4Gb of system DDR.
I realize we're only talking 1080p here, but with what Unreal Engine 4 is showing in lighting and particle updates, I'd rather not limit the Developers of 2020 when MS and Sony are still claiming their hardware has three more years in it. -
I doubt they'll use mobile gpus. I also wasn't saying they should use a 680. High-end cards will always run too hot to be used in a console. I was thinking more along the lines of a modified 760/770 with some inventive cooling solutions. I just don't see anything less standing up over time. At least, not more than 5 years.
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A more conservative console really risks the entire business. People are going to be upset if they pay hundreds of dollars and its not much better. Also the less they push the hardware now the faster the ipad will catch up and surpass it. Its going to be kind of silly when 4 years after the next gen consoles are out the ipad is pushing graphics just as hard.
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Personally I'm becoming a little apathetic towards next-gen consoles. With PC h/w continuing to improve it's price>performance ratio and becoming easier to build oneself more and more gamers are getting a PC as a late. Even from the standpoint of simply people I know. People who hadn't gamed on a PC before and hadn't bothered to because of the myths about expense and difficulty in system building have, due in some part to my advice, built or purchased a PC.
It's just...the way games on consoles have been going, more and more casual, less involved, almost spitting in the face of hardcore gamers, I really can't see myself giving two shits about games which follow that trend and many of my friends on XBL feel the exact same way. It's really only a matter of time until they buy a PC. Hell, one of them recently purchased Diablo 3 and just from playing with myself and my friends, talking in Vent/TS3, he's already talking about building a gaming PC to replace his Macbook Pro.
Then there's the welcome relief of being able to have conversations or dialogue which doesn't involve accusations of hax or calling opponents Bad Kids. Instead of hearing little kids raging or average joe's going on about how someone must be cheating you hear "Good Game" "Wow, we got our ass's kicked" or simply a civil friendly discussion of the match sometimes even another topic altogether. You can't really put a price on that, and it's something you'd be hard pressed to find on consoles. I believe my friend recognized that immediately.
There were over 30 people in our TS3 at the time and the one's in the D3 channel were exactly the type of player we try to find in Gears of War 3. We burn through randoms for GB scrims trying to find people with enough maturity to stay cool and intelligence to learn. They don't even have to be spectacular players, they just have to show the capacity to improve, which means recognizing their skill level, basically being honest, which often involves a certain demeanor and method of communication which becomes easy to recognize, something he no doubt saw just from how we were all talking playing D3. You really just can't put a price on that.-
I think at least part of the reason the PC gaming audience is growing right now is that people are getting into it (or back into it) because the consoles are really starting to look old now. A mid range PC today blows the consoles away... I wonder if things will swing towards consoles again if the next generation is very powerful and can actually give a higher end PC (GTX 570 level) a run for its money.
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I think the next-gen consoles will revive a little of what the console has lost, but long term I think it will depend on what Developers do with it. If the hardware is there, the gap between console and PC could be reduced considerably. Development for the two platforms could share more in common, making it less of a chore, or point of dispute. Obviously one uses a gamepad and the other a KB & mouse (for the most part), so movement sensitivities will likely always be an issue in lazy ports, but much of the other complaints levied at console ports could be removed. In addition, many of the genres traditionally native to PC, like D3, could enjoy broadening their user base into the console crowd. To me this would be a win - win, but the proprietary minds of MS and especially Sony may not agree. Let's hope they are a little less short-sighted then that.
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That contributes to it as well, but I feel it's as much about the games atm than eye candy. There's no game which gives what the Dayz mod gives. The monetary value of Skyrim mods, if they were sold on XBL, would easily be the cost of a mid-range gpu.
I hope you're right that the next console can keep up with a 570, but even if it can, that won't stop devs from making games even easier than they are now...Have you played GoW3? They added guns which essentially aim themselves and the spawn system will spawn entire teams right on top of the objective, or behind players holding an area which gives map control and they don't lose spawn protection after shooting...Epics next title has been openly stated as being as casual an experience as possible...I honestly can't think of one truly hardcore shooter that's been recently released or is going to be released. Maybe Halo 4 will have something which can offer that...maybe, but i doubt it. The guys who have built PCs did so because they were playing SC2 and CS. They're tired of how...simple and easy and forgiving games have become for players which suck. Without hardcore titles on console, hardcore shooters, there's nothing to keep players like them there. That's why they built PCs, why I game more on my PC, why more and more hardcore gamers are getting PCs.
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It's not nearly as bad as it used to be.
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I agree with them, I have a feeling that MS and/or Sony might be looking a bit towards Nintendo and thinking maybe they don't have to go balls out with graphics for the next generation. But when you think about how long this current generation has lasted... we might have the next generation of consoles for almost 10 years... so they better make these things pretty damn powerful.
On the other hand... I think CPU power is just as important because the quantum leap I want to see this generation is in AI and believable people and worlds!-
Valid point. AI has taken some nice leaps in the last 5 years, but there is a lot of ideas and talent waiting to be tapped in that area. I'm all for giving our game Developers room to explore.
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Given the next HDTV format (4k) is still 5-10 years out, I think we will be using 1080p for the majority of this console's cycle. Given that, I have to agree, FOV and proper KB&M support will continue to be a complaint when it comes to ports. Hopefully, with most the other complaints us PC users make concerning ports removed, there will be more time and budget to address those two items.
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i don't think resolution is the issue, anyway. 1080p is more than enough for now. i want better animation, better AA, better shadows/particle effects, better sound. higher resolution textures.
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I want more realistic horse armor
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error 72: deltoid error: unable to allocate sufficient memory to UE4 deltoid mass.
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Reads like EPIC is shoveling their warez again.
Gotta sell their next wave of the Unreal Engine to make MO MONEY, MO MONEY, MO MONEY!
This aint got jack shit to do with "by gamers, for gamers".
I just played Max Payne 3, game was off the hook. Thing didn't even use Unreal man. So what the fuck are they talking about?-
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<3 frontpagers
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Epic really need to stop bitching about their engine and next gen hardware. They make it sound like they want 'gtx690' or similar hardware in consoles. It good push tech and all, but it ain't gonna sell if it costs too much.
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If it's only a modest bump in hardware, and they last as long as the ps3/360, then PC games are going to be held back for a very long time. This will probably decimate the discrete graphics hardware industry, as built-in graphics will probably catch up with the consoles.
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I hope the next Unreal Engine can run at 60 FPS on the consoles instead of 30.
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Framerate is more to do with hardware rather than the engine. Hell, with a bit of tweaking, I'm sure they could even getting running at 60fps on current consoles, it's just that it comes to compromising the graphical/visual fidelity of the game...and I mean HUGE compromise.
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I believe me I have tried. I have sat there with a bare bones level with some terrain, some water, a few brushes, a vehicle, and a skybox with the vanilla unreal tournament 3 build and put it on a PS3 and the only time it got to 60 FPS is when looking straight up at the sky. There is a reason why you don't see any unreal engine games running at 60 fps on current consoles.
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