Firefall adds pets, ability to 'despawn' enemy companions
Red 5 founder and CEO Mark Kern reveals to Shacknews that Firefall will feature pets, but the feature comes with a special twist.
Red 5 founder and CEO Mark Kern visited the Shacknews office last week, bringing with him a handful of reveals for the upcoming free-to-play shooter Firefall. Today's revelation is that Firefall will feature pets, a familiar addition for MMOs but something rare in the shooter genre.
"One new feature that we're really excited about is introducing the new 'Pet' system into Firefall." Kern revealed to Shacknews. "I mean, when's the last time you heard about a shooter with pets?" Red 5's idea for the feature doesn't end there, however. "We had to had to do little things to actually make it interesting," he admitted.
"Not only can you get a pet, but we're thinking that there's actually an item you can buy in the store to load your gun with special ammunition so you actually shoot the other guy's pet," Kern said, noting that executing this action would actually "despawn" your adversary's companion for a time.
Kern clarifies that players will "for sure" be able to kill pets, but they haven't figured out the best way to do it as of yet. "The item is one way," he said.
"The first one we're announcing is going to be on a Wednesday promotion called 'Crystite Challenge.' It's a way that players can do things like invite friends into the beta to earn Crystite and unlock a special pet," Kern detailed. The first special pet is part of a partnership with Penny Arcade that will feature the character "The Merch."
"The Merch is awesome because he's all about merchandising and he fits with our item-based theme." Firefall's Crystite Challenge begins on Wednesday, giving players a chance to earn The Merch pet. The pet itself will be usable when the game launches.
Though I tried to pry away details on Firefall's fifth Battleframe, Kern wouldn't budge. Firefall is expected to launch in December; however, users can register for an ongoing beta on the game's official website.
Stay tuned for a lengthy video interview with Kern where he details more on Firefall, including the game's army system and business model.
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Xav de Matos posted a new article, Firefall adds pets, ability to 'despawn' enemy companions.
Red 5 founder and CEO Mark Kern reveals to Shacknews that Firefall will feature pets, but the feature comes with a special twist.-
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Pets are not hard to implement. All a pet it, is a model that doesnt cause collision, doesn't have any effect on the game, and doesn't have anything important to it. It's like making a monster without stats. Plus, Im not even sure if it's implemented yet, just an idea that the Red5 guys decided was a good idea.
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Sure, just maybe make it a pack of new animations... or if it's the individual animation make it fair pricing. No way I'd spend $5 just to be able to high five my pet, however $1 or less sounds reasonable enough.
Also, please for the cash shop make it easy to tell how much your store currency equates to real money amount and how much you've spent so far. Hate having 5,000 points equating to some random money amount like $13.25, makes it a pain to keep track for budgeting.
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I would like this if the pet system works as follow: the pet is an extra blank avatar that can be customized with shop items (and perhaps epic drops/rewards for certain events). If the pets themselves have different looks which needs to be purchased on top of emotes that need to be purchased, it would feel a bit like I'm paying twice for the same content, if you know what I mean. ^^
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Having pets able to fight would be awesome actually... Imagine two players pitting each other pets together and all the owners do is something like like Rock-Paper-Scissors. Whoever gets the winning hand gets to see his pet attack the opponents for damage, if they get the same hand you get to see them both attack each other, and if you get the wrong hand you see your pet get hurt. Give the round something short like enough to take 3 hits before losing. Could be a pretty fun little mini game to do with other players.
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While I'd question the addition of vanity pets in a shooter, I look forward to hearing more about the "twist" involved with these. Could lead to some interesting gameplay mechanics.
I do have two questions:
1) What are the different ways we can collect these pets?
2) Will ground pets will end up with some of their own jet boots to follow me around as I scale the countryside. :) -
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Your geek cred is not in danger here. Yu Yu is pretty meh in my book. but here is a link..
http://yuyuhakusho.wikia.com/wiki/Pu-
http://medias.jeuxonline.info/www/captures/459/6/11466-160.jpg this thing is cute
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http://www.awake-and-dreaming.net/Art/artwork/Other/images/904Puu.jpg
Don't worry, not all of us can grow up on Toonami.
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Hopefully they don't have the pets in PVP, dying because the other person saw your pet would be quite idiotic. As long as the pets aren't just cash shop items I would like this feature, I mean event pets, achievement pets and ingame currency bought pets in addition to cash shop would make them more acceptable.
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I would rather like some of these pets to give stat boosts, like extra HP because they are a Shield Generator, or Extra Jetpack time because they are a fuel tank or something like that. Almost like the modules they have for jetpacks, this could just be something extra that we could grab to help customize our character. Maybe even one with a gun that fires a low damage round. The Tau have them in Warhammer, and I think it's a good idea.
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Well, are the pets only purchasable? I imagine you would be able to find them out in the wilderness too. Maybe the shield generator guys are only able to be found off of the Chosen Dreadnaughts, (which i why they're so tough) but since you attacked them, they have a reduced effect on you for being damaged.
Besides, they don't have to be huge boosts.
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If you really gave a shit you wouldn't ruin it with your spam. Your game can do well without being pushed on people in an obnoxious way. Just you in this thread answering questions and letting others know you post here will get people to notice the thread, and that is what you would do if you cared about shack and the community. Instead you have target post counts you want to hit and give Firefall forum users prizes for spamming shack's comments.
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Warhammer 40K Tau Shield Drones
http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/3/2/87060_md-Tau%20Fireknife%20Crisis%20Suit%20with%20Shield%20Drones.jpg
Nothing wussy about them.
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That is awesome! Will pets be able to use small minor special abilities in PvE (no PvP please?)
Will pets be able to pick up items?
How many pets can each player/account have?
What do you feel will be the best thing about pets?
Will you have a robotic dog, and will you have a walking auto turret like Bietols avatar?
Soooo excited ha ha!
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The promo page will be up on Wednesday: www.crystitechallenge.com
Details will be there an easy to explain on Wednesday.
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Reason they appeal to me is because I often like the way they look and having a little minion that follows you around is awesome. Plus it opens the door for various convenient minion mechanics like pack-muling, traveling to sell items for you, minion fighting that doesn't hurt the player if their minion loses, ect. It's just some extra good fun.
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Speaking of... Would be we be able to craft some pet killing ammo in game too? Would be nice to have the option to have to go through the effort of collecting the resources to make a couple of these. Could still make them appealing in the cash shop by making them easier to get and in much larger quantities.
Like the difference of processing to get 4 bullets in game or just buying a 20 round clip in the cash shop for a dollar or two.
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New- Improved Idea for bets.
XP Modifier (A small amount of XP earned is spread across all classes)
Drop Modifier Pets (They reduce the drops of all item types, except the type of drops that they boost)
Selling/Buying Boosts/Reductions.
Army XP boost
Movement Boost (Only out of combat for world travel stuff)
Stuff like that would be cool and wouldnt effect the actual game combat almost at all. -
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I think if they are going to be offering some type of ammunition or weapon for sale in the item shop then the pets should probably do something, otherwise why would you want to despawn them? They could feasibly offer some type of small buff to the player in the way of extra shields or hit points. As long as it's not a huge advantage and there are easy ways for everyone to get pets other than just the item shop.
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Yes you can. I said it before, and I will say it again. There a shield, and weapon drones for Tau in the Warhammer games that are effectively pets. http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/3/2/87060_md-Tau%20Fireknife%20Crisis%20Suit%20with%20Shield%20Drones.jpg
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First thing I thought of when I heard "Firefall pets" was the mags from Phantasy Star Online. Little dude I would be feeding crysite to and he sparkles and spins around in a circle. And in return I would get healing boost for my healing frame and larger, deep red flames for my jetpack graphic. But then again, being a healer is probably going to get me enough attention without massive red flames shooting out of my bottom side.
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The way a friend who used to play Eve described it, a lot of it had to do with the fact that the update that introduced the paid-for content didn't change anything else in game.
Most notably, he suggested, was a rather disliked change to how people could hold space. The previous change had apparently broken it, and it was hoped that the monocle update was going to fix major issues and add some new gameplay, as all the previous updates had.
I guess the moral of the story is: make sure you give the free people something to do along with the paid stuff. It'll keep everyone happy.
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Make sure to read and watch the full interview: http://www.shacknews.com/article/70238/firefall-interview-with-red-5-boss-mark-kern
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I need these pets to auto-taunt people for me when I am too busy killing their buddies to stop and do so myself. If I drop someone and my pet walks over to them and gives them a Unreal Tournament 2004-esque "My House!" or "Pwnage!" or "Anyone else want some!?" or something equally trash-talking, you got yourself a sale.
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well.. as long, as the pets dont give combat-critical buffs i can agree to the shoot-the-crap-out-of-those-irritating-critters - part ^^.
one question: in this short recruitment-video at 0:14, hovering next to the gliding player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqqGaq4jX9Y
is that one of the pets ? -
Seeing as Red5 is always looking for input from the community:
What kind of pet would you like to see most? Be as vague or specific as you like :)
I'd love to see either a League of Legends reference and/or Minecraft related pets :D I can just see that little creeper-ish-looking-thing following me around now, going TSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS... BOOM! when it gets shot xD-
Considering the setting and genre, I would personally like to see mechanical pets that compliment the various battleframes in appearance, since the battleframes are such a large part of character progression in Firefall. Like I said before the first thing that came to mind was the "mags" from Phantasy Star Online... would love to see little robotic companions floating a little bit behind my character(s). Even bigger draw-to-buy if they are interactive or responsive to extrenal events "Fist pumping mini-frames ftw?)
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for those that want the slight bonuses for having pets...maybe shooting a pet will steal the bonus?
but i think the majority want it to be purely aesthetic...anyhow, if pets are likely to be PvE only, and there's currently no open world PvP, there'd be no real retaliation if someone walked up and shot my pet, right? -
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I'm sorry, pet-likers. I don't like the idea. In my book there's something... off in little creatures following futuristic super-soldiers, or super-soldiers keeping pets. And robots are kind of engineer's specialty. But as long as they give no advantages and are therefore truly optional, I guess I don't have any right to complain. Don't hate me, people. :(
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Also in context, Mark has said they are very excited about their pet system and excited about what they could do in the future with their pets. And seeing as he is going to be reading this thread, this sort of feedback and argument is valuable input for him. Someone saying "PSO mags" could be a spark of inspiration that leads to something in the future.
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I humbly request a mini keg that rolls behind me called "Homebrew".
Make it happens Mark :p
I really loved the concept of being able to kill someone else's pet, because some pets can be really annoying after a while, or if you want to get rid of your friends pet that he flaunts because it is rare :p. -
Please give no benefit to having pets, just asthetic and funny purposes. The reason being I think it would be kinda unimmerssive to have a bunch of soldiers running around with little pets right by them. Much like the swtor pet system is kinda bleh to me. I just dont like the idea of pets being a must be on at all times thing.
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I'm looking forward to seeing interesting uses for pets. The (only announced) Merch pet appears to be strictly vanity and it was unclear if this is the extent of the pet system or if there are plans to make them really "battle" pets. If they are I think it opens up interesting new customization ideas, and for some classes will make for some new strategies to mix things up. At first I was a little worried it would cut into the "skill-based" nature of the game, but I'm warming up to it. Totally willing to be proved wrong here :)
... Plus: come on, nuking pets of jerkbags? Every time they respawn? Until they cry and log off? Yesplz. -
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One idea I always liked is letting pets have their own separate inventory. This lets you stash away some extra items while out in the field and makes trading between characters a lot less bothersome(though with firefall you only really need one character).
I would prefer if pets were PVE to keep the PVP as balanced and simple as possible. It would certainly be neat if pets had their own little arena though (heck you could probably make it so the player controls the pet while it's in the arena, essentially adding another layer of PVP, while not as competitive or serious of course) -
A pet system in a shooter? Wow! This looks very nice.
I have a few questions though:
1. Will we be able to pick different pets to suit our playstyle? (E.G A fast pet that's weak or a powerful pet that acts more like a shield, etc)
2. Mark mentioned purchasing an item to despawn pets. Is that a premium item, or will we be able to buy it using hard earned in-game cash?
3. Pets could cause an issue in regards to the game's balance, should they be an actual unit capable of attacking/defending in battle. When will we be able to test out pets and tell red 5 our opinions about them?
Keep it up R5! -
Firefall is now appearing on the right rail in the news section as one of the Shack Community's "Top Games."
http://chattypics.com/files/firefallPNG_rlc5s42oa7.png
Congrats, Red 5 Studios. -
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Here is a question I didnt think about before... If lets say... I have that Pet shooting ammo equipped. Would the Pet actually be able to block an shot that would have normally hit the player?
I know they will likely be positioned in a way so that it would be completely minimal, but I think it might be dangerous to have this sort of shield up, particularly if it was capable of blocking sniper rounds.-
Well, I think they said that they don't plan to have them in pvp matches, but if people like the idea they might try it out. That being said, pets can be paper for all intents and purposes so bullets go right through them. And if you can load special ammo types with gun modifiers, I doubt that's the one you want loaded in a pvp map. In general I see this as being a non issue.
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Look closer. There are a LOT of topics that have the same ideas, and they are spread out throughout various forums. Some of them may even be in forums you don't have access too actually.
Though to be fair, I wish I worked for them. I did actulaly apply but I dont think that I could get in given my backround. -
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I was on the other side. And while I guess it was cool-ish... It was just a Zerg Tactic. it was kind of exploiting the games weaknesses. Caiger would have stood FOREVER!!!!!.... okay probablly not, but still I think we could have even taken you Shacknews players if you all didn't hit the doors all at the same time and swarm in. We couldn't even re-cade the doors because they were all down in less than three seconds. Also lag.
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the only claim you can really make is that zombies can't organize, but in that game, they clearly could. that's sort of like complaining if one faction in an MMO is overpowered because they have a well run guild - that's life. you guys could have formed up and made an IRC channel or something and devoted copious amounts of time to figuring out a counter strategy and made it into the proverbial Urban Dead hall of fame, but you didn't!
and lag is the lamest excuse ever. >:(-
Actually, Caiger mall did make it into the hall of fame there for several tactics against the normal hordes. The tactics had nothing to do with Shacknews' Victory. Humans could not defend against 700 Zombies all moving at the same time and using the Zerg Tactic. Humans didnt have the luxury of just being around when the zombies attacked. They had to watch 24/7, and you can't do that.
Actually the thing about lag was... with 900 players all on the server at the same time, You couldn't actually respond well enough. By the time you noticed the cades were falling, you would try to recade, and by the time the server was done processing yours and the other 900 players, there was 400 zombies in the room, gnawing on your arm.
I think the Caiger Mall Survivors held out pretty damn well against Shacknews given the tactics they were using.-
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But the problem with that, you only lose 5 or 10 AP on standing up, which doesn't actually hurt Zombies. If a zombie killed a human, we would have to spend like 30 AP to get them up. Assaulting the Zombies only droped thier AP by 20%, but cost the humans 50% of thier AP points. We had to be much more careful about how we used our AP.
Just to combat revive you guys, we would have to spend 1 point getting out, 4 points to walk back into the mall, but not before 1 point to make sure you didn't have brain rot with the Extractor, and then 10 points to rez you. That was the most efficient way to put a Zombie down outside the mall, and it took us way more points than it does for you guys to just stand back up and go at it.-
ah, so you should be complaining to the developers, not us.
it's really not that classy to come here and essentially say we "won" through cheap tactics when those were the tactics in place from the game's makers. that's like when some guy in LoL tells me i'm winning because i am playing an easy character and he's not.-
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Well I did originally say that it was taking advantage of the games mechanics. People do that. In LoL people are playing Skarner right now because of the stupid Flash/Cleanse Bug, or when they exploted the bug where Annie would multiple cast her spells.
Exploiting the flaws of a game... is a little underhanded. It is not only at the fault of the people who programmed the game, but on those who are exploiting as well.-
you said "exploiting the games weaknesses" which strongly implies that we are not good gamers/cheating/something negative. doing research and working together and figuring out the best way to use game mechanics to favor yourself *is* part of gaming. we didn't exploit: we just planned and gamed well.
circling back to your point about the human disadvantages, again, if we flipped roles and shacknews decided to go human, you can be damned sure our strategies would work with those weaknesses and strengths. it seems you just didn't want to do that.-
Well, you probably would have defended Caiger no problem. The Zombie to Human Ratio was pretty even before you guys showed up, and under the same circumstances, tipping the scales in any direction would have been succesful.
The Mall Tours that were going around were already destroying every other Mall but Caiger. Zombies already had the upper hand (slightly).-
this keeps boiling down to you just being upset that we were organized whereas you never were. i still don't get your point. and i also don't understand how you think you are doing the game Firefall any favors by coming in here and then saying we win by exploits. great, now i've negatively associated that game with you.
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Eh, the stakes are different with Firefall. Id love for Shacknews to come in and pwn my face in the 5v5 matches. Then I could respect the individual skill. Though I will admit your guys skill at getting people together is pretty legendary. I've seen better in Warrior Nation, and they were douches. At least The Shacknews team was cool about thier victory at Caiger.
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No, I'm not mad at them. I hold no grudge... It just never made me want to come here. I actually almost did get into the community here because of the conversations I had after the Siege at Caiger mall with people. I was on my way to joining this community but then I had to be out of state for three months, and stopped all gaming. Didnt have interenet access and kinda stopped playing urbandead.
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You're one of them.
Replying with something non-sensical is a good sign of a bot. Like what smookyolo replied with or a couple of the comments that started off this tangent.
A lot of the comments in the thread itself are stereotypical praise for the idea itself. Hell WoW threads don't even get this much comments or praise. This reeks heavily of paid shills.-
in all honesty, from what i know of the studio, they are smarter than to pay such shitty shills if that's what they were aiming for. in this day and age, even an idiot knows that paying for shills is a great way to make sure the hardcore community hates you and this studio knows they need the hardcore. it's very likely that these are all legit fans, particularly since the quality is quite varied. that's the one thing a studio can't control when they ask people to flood a place: quality.
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Viral ad campaigns work because they get attention they wouldn't otherwise have gotten, even if it alienates some people.
Look at other articles on here and compare the amount of responses they get, then compare it to this article and the preview for Firefall. Most of the users in here have only posted in these two specific posts. Articles and news posts before 9/11 did not get any sort of commenting and only have about 40 posts a piece.
This could most definitely correlate to a contract start date.
This sort of rabid 'fandom' is only seen in extremely large communities, such as wow, Firefall does not have that many fans backing it. BF3, which is purportedly going to be a much bigger game the Firefall and has quite a bit more fans and spotlight, only averages about 50-60 posts per news release.
I never expected this from this studio either, but look at the comments, posters, and trends... this is not normal.-
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Doesn't that make it better though? People who are excited about the game, and they want the game to succeed because they dont want to be playing in a desolate wasteland?
With all the other games ou there right now... GW2, Diablo2, SC:HotS, Swotor, etc etc etc coming out right now... I want this game to do well so that when I devote time to it, It wont be the same thing that happened to Warhammer Online, which isn't a bad game, but just couldnt compete with everything else out there.-
Better, but forum raids are generally considered frowned-upon behavior.
If the CEO had made posts on the forums asking people to go over to reddit and upvote the story about the interview, Reddit would discover the attempt to game the system and would remove the link and (I believe) ban all links to their website in the future, because it's something that's not allowed over there.
This thing is absolutely no different: He has asked you all to come here to game Shacknews's "TOP GAMES" feature on the front page. It's worked of course, but the question remains if that should be considered ethical behavior. On a lot of sites it would not be.-
Fair points. Though, what is considered ethical varies wildly. Which is why America has such a hard time getting our stuff together when it comes to politics. If the system is able to be manipulated (exploited if you will) then doing something like this may both be the right move, and ethically questionable. If it's not outright ethically wrong, then I can't see it being a reason you wouldnt go look at the game itself. (Note: I learned these lessons partially from Shacknews itself)
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Most parent-level posts to articles here end up spawning subthreads with a couple posts in them. It's one of the huge reasons we all like the Shack commenting system so much: It makes it very easy to have quick little conversations. So the total number of replies is not indicative of how many unique users are in the thread.
Also, is the one you're talking about the one where he offered free shit for posting? That would explain why lots of lurkers would come out of the woodworks. There's no benefit for them posting in the thread on the official forums so it makes sense that they wouldn't also post over there.
Of course, the ironic thing is that offering a free poster or whatever to a random guy for posting here does start to cross the line in to "paying" them to post here.-
Compare this thread and the preview thread to this one from aug 2:
http://www.shacknews.com/article/69549/firefall-launches-this-december
Half of the comments on the bottom were posted after sept 11. That news post has 58 total comments including those posted after sept 11, with only one big tangent.-
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Ah ha, you can see why that happened here:
http://www.firefallthegame.com/community/threads/shacknews-needs-firefall-comments-help-promote-firefall.9448/page-9#post-322543
It's one of the links he posted (on Sep 11) asking people to come comment on.
Also, that thread on the official forums has over 1000 posts so the numbers do make sense.-
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paying is actually a worse word for you to use - paying fans to accomplish a company's goal isn't even a grey area in the no-no zone: the FTC has explicit rules against it. so if that is indeed what the company is doing with you guys and the FTC found this, they would be in a world of hurt and you would have severely damaged the company you say you love.
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because i have to leave soon, here's an overview of what i'm talking about concerning the FTC: http://www.pcworld.com/article/173169/ftcs_new_rules_for_bloggers_a_quick_guide.html
Chat Rooms, Message Boards and Commenting
Let's say you work at the Apple Store, and, under your own initiative, you start posting messages under online Zune reviews about how much more awesome the iPod Touch is than the Zune HD. If you haven't disclosed that you work for Apple, you've broken the FTC's rules.
Bottom Line: Don't post comments that undercut your company's competitors unless you make it clear who you are. This one is especially important to follow, since the FTC has dealt with this before.
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i make things that can be called viral ad campaigns for a living - in this instance, this would be a campaign to raise awareness for Firefall on Shacknews (which makes sense - we're hardcore and great evangelists). however it seems that this tactic is making people negatively associate the game and the CEO with these actions, which means it was poorly thought out.
they could have done this better and invited the shacknews community in instead of bringing people to us - they could have controlled the message to ensure it being received positively.-
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i'm not sure what you mean by "i morer do things in life" - perhaps a typo? regardless, i do this for a living, and perhaps that makes me evil in your eyes - but that's because you are only looking at viral marketing as evil. your definition of what viral marketing is only pertains to BAD viral marketing. there is plenty of GOOD viral marketing out there. for example: the old spice campaign.
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oh - so you were trying to insult me? that's a shame, because i wasn't trying to be mean. i run the community and interactive marketing department for a game publishing company, so i actually really do this for a living and i was honestly trying to explain to you good and bad viral marketing - i really hate it that bad marketing and bad social/viral stuff is out there fucking up all the work i do to make good stuff. in my opinion, good campaigns happen and no one says "look at that viral marketing" - they say "look at this badass thing" - and that's how it should be. you are benefiting, as am i.
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You work in the industry...I've always been curious. Do you know if studios actually do thisoften, or even at all? It always struck me as ''okay, this person is an idiot'' the minute someone mentions viral or shills. It just seems so far fetched that a company would actually pay money to send people to obscure gaming sites just to trick maybe 50 or so people into liking game based on someone else's comments.
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i'm confused - if the CEO of Firefall had invited us to join Firefall's beta and your community, that would have been FUCKING AWESOME. that way, i would get to play the game and be part of the game rather than have to talk to you about how you think we exploited another game - all the while not being able to play Firefall, which i was rather looking forward to.
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i'm actually very disappointed in the Shacknews crew (sorry Xav, i promise i really do like a lot of what you do) for letting this happen. Xav even posted in two different threads with the same exact comment congratulating the studio for making it to slot #3 of TOP GAMES - which leads me to believe they told them how to get there and perhaps had some sort of agreement.
i think that kind of stinks, because rather than making that agreement they could have utilized their own community in conjunction with the Firefall community to make something awesome and positive. instead, we got regular articles (not a bad thing) and a bunch of people flooding in to get posters. why would the studio not want to reward us or evangelize us?-
There was no agreement about anything. The founder of Red 5 is a fan of Shacknews and when we did some coverage awhile back of the game, he encouraged his community to check it out. That turned into a 1000+ comments on Xav's preview. Xav was encouraged by the response and decided to pursue more coverage because obviously people are interested in the game. There's really nothing more to it than that.
Also there's no secret formula to getting in our Top Games list. It's just calculated by page views over the last seven days on a game page or game-related page like an article or video.
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If that was the case I wouldn't have went over to the FF forums and looked up the threads you're talking about. Stop trying to put this in a positive light.
There are a lot of other, more positive things, they could've done PR wise to make Shacknewsers interested in their game then artificially inflate a game ranking and explode a frontpage news comments section.
What brought this all to my attention was there was absolutely no meaty comments on this page. While the usual list of comments are sparse, they usually have a couple that spark a nice conversation or debate. These pages are just full of marketing trash: 'omg this game is awesome', 'omg pets', 'omg I want a pony', 'omg where are my sharks with laser eyes', 'awesome game', 'legendary game', 'ur mums gay... oh yeah this is a great game'...
Seriously stuff like that adds nothing positive to a discussion. Anyone can sing praise about a game they have NEVER played simply because they were asked to.
Games now days are marketed so heavily that you can't actually see what the game looks like, so you have to look at the critical points. 'Great game' says absolutely nothing about the actual game... there are advertisements all over TV that tell you that.-
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i really don't know where you are coming from in terms of "undermining human bonds" - i think you have had a bad experience or are being hyperbolic because you are being far too dramatic and this is not actually what this kind of marketing is.
if you want to have a rational conversation about it i'm happy to talk to you about it. i really love what i do and try very hard to make valuable content, so if you want to engage in a conversation i'll totally explain anything you have misgivings about. and trust me, i am not a fan of bad marketing whatsoever.-
No, I'm not... I've taken a few classes on marketing, as well, including a consumer psychology course.
What I meant about undermining human bonds is viral marketing attempts to invade your social life in a effort to flood it with a product that may have absolutely nothing to do with you. They attempt to pose as your friend so you credit them as such and think that it's actual human interaction instead of someone trying to sell you a product. They aren't trying to make your life better, be your friend or make your friends happier, they're attempting to get your money. It's advertising.
How many of the people in this comment section do you think will actually stick around if they stop asking them to post on here? How many do you think actually added anything to the conversation Shacknews besides the tangent I started by labeling this as a viral marketing campaign? Do you think this is a beneficial experience for Shacknews or the people here?
How would a 'good' viral marketing campaign be different from this besides people wouldn't notice it's viral marketing at all? I think you're mixing up good and bad with successful and unsuccessful.
Adding to this two people from this thread tracked me back to TR and posted on a thread I made there.-
again, i think you are only talking about bad (and we can also say unsuccessful) marketing campaigns. also, i'd like to say i'm not advocating what the studio did by enticing people to come over here - i don't like that at all.
i gave an example earlier of viral marketing that is awesome: the old spice twitter campaign. that is pretty much the best example you can see in revent years and it did not in any way undermine human bonds or invade someone's social life who did not want to partake in the event.-
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i'm not sure how to answer this question because i think you know it already and are just trying to be antagonistic. we've actually gone over these topics.
urban dead is a video game that we all played.
viral marketing is a thing that companies do.
you are a member of a community who has come into this community and appears not to like this community.
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Avoiding a community doesn't mean I hate the community.
Honestly, I think it's a legitimate argument, and Im not trying to be antagonistic. If you would like, we could talk about it in the Firefall Forums in a private conversation. As to not keep posting here, on this already over expanded thread thingy.
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OverloadUT, one of your members actually pointed out that there was a varying degree of postings on this website. Of course it doesnt matter to you, because you're so angry about it that you're determinted to just rip on this as much as possible, whether the information backs you or not. And Im not even saying that the information doesnt back you, but you've made several posts that have an extremely weak premise.
I also do not enjoy the standard with no description that you're talking about. However, in the previous thread that Grummz posted, he was only giving rewards for people who posted decent threads that would get comments. It's in the main part. The one that pointed us here, mirrors the same sentiment, but without a reward. You can't blame him for people who can't think beyond the premise 'great game'. If everyone COULD get beyond that, then everybody would be a game developer and nobody would play games.-
Saying I've made posts with a 'extremely weak premise' simply to state you have a more advantageous position, does not make it so. You actually have to start quoting and pointing out the logical flaws. I'm not just going to take your word for it because you said it first.
The standard with no description? I posted it in a different part of this tangent already.
"Viral marketing, viral advertising, or marketing buzz are buzzwords referring to marketing techniques that use pre-existing social networks to produce increases in brand awareness or to achieve other marketing objectives (such as product sales) through self-replicating viral processes, analogous to the spread of viruses or computer viruses. It can be delivered by word of mouth or enhanced by the network effects of the Internet."-
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it's unfortunate you think that we are fools - you have no interest in being part of this community.
http://www.firefallthegame.com/community/threads/goal-250-posts-firefall-pets-announced-on-shacknews.9916/page-5 -
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Viral marketing: Viral marketing, viral advertising, or marketing buzz are buzzwords referring to marketing techniques that use pre-existing social networks to produce increases in brand awareness or to achieve other marketing objectives (such as product sales) through self-replicating viral processes, analogous to the spread of viruses or computer viruses. It can be delivered by word of mouth or enhanced by the network effects of the Internet.
Or so says Wikipedia. -
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Sorry you feel that way., Bensam, dahanese. Its not easy for me to be here an answer questions all day on these threads, especially on multiple articles. I think that adds a lot of value to an interview and is a key reason why these threads get long. Because the developer is here answering questions, you are getting a lot more information on the game than any other thread. It's sort of like an interactive article. Most news sites would have to arrange something special for that to happen, but this is just happening on its own and because Red 5 values interfacing directly with customers. If you don't feel that's valuable, you are of course entitled to your opinion, but attacking others on this thread and calling them bots or worse is not really a great way to make your point.
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It's one thing to say "Hey I'll be over at Shacknews answering questions in the article today." THAT is valuable, and good! I really appreciated you doing that today and I thought it was pretty cool. That's something that I'm sure most of our community appreciates.
It's 100% different to say "We want to reach the top of the TOP GAMES list on Shacknews, so go comment on these current and old articles to game the system." Even worse is you offering them stuff to help you game the system. As I said above, if you had done that on Reddit, or Digg, you would be banned forever as it's strictly against policy. Shacknews has never had to deal with anything like this before (to my knowledge) so it makes sense that there's no policy in place.
It's insulting that in this post you are trying to say that we're getting a lot of traffic "because the developer is here answering questions" when you and I know it is in fact largely due to the fact that you're giving away Firefall posters to everyone who comments here.-
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I'm genuinely curious who you are considering to be trolling. You're saying it's the cause of the thread size so you must be referring to the four major contributors to this subthread: me, dahanese, Bensam123, and TheJayde. Which two or three of them have been trolling?
I'm not entirely sure you're using "trolling" correctly at all, because I wouldn't call any one of them trolling. You should be sure of what an insult like that means before using it, especially when referring to potential fans.
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I mean, I like your game I really do. As I said before, I was working the PAX booth adjacent to yours and so I got to see your gameplay and trailer a billion times and I even signed up for the beta when I got home.
But this whole "we'll give you stuff if you take part in a forum raid" thing has put a really sour taste in my mouth. :(
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I understand the idea of instant feedback and liking the idea of figuring out what your fans want... but how does moving fans from your website over here help? All they did was post how awesome the game is and didn't really add anything to the discussion.
Most fans don't even offer good feedback either as they're completely enamored with the game and the idea, so no matter what you throw at them they'll eat it up... as can be seen in the comments on here.
This is completely putting aside that posts on the FF website basically states that they're trying to raise post levels here to drive up the place on the anticipated game list... -
hey grummz -
i totally understand where you are coming from in terms of interacting with the community and i'm a huge advocate of it. actually, i run a gaming community for a living so you and i see eye-to-eye on that. what i am disappointed by is not the interactivity, but the requests to post comments to make numbers bigger - this doesn't inherently support quality conversation and i posit that asking someone to post anything in order to receive a physical good only opens you up to having inferior quality comments made.
i'm a big supporter of firefall and i'm excited for the game, but i think sending community members into another community to post hundreds of comments for the purpose of raising your game on a top 5 list to be a risky endeavor: you could make the community you are entering feel upset, alienated, spammed - a whole number of things. you also risk people posting inferior quality things just for the purpose of making the number bigger and/or getting a physical good like a poster.
i completely support you coming back in the future and making an interactive "ask me anything" thread and invite both firefall and shacknews posters - heck, even bring those g4tv.com posters from that video thread you were talking about on the firefall forums. that would be awesome - i would love to see three communities brought together.-
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Do they do interactive stuff on Shack? I'm pretty accessible on a lot of places, including our forums (warning, blatant plug here: www.firefallthegame.com), reedit, twitter, etc.
I try to engage the Shack community by being responsive in the Firefall main chatty thread.-
i'm not an employee here, so that's something you'd have to arrange with them (or do yourself by hanging out, i suppose). but just to be clear, my qualms were with the initial posts where people were coming in just to make the post count bigger, which you urged, and my thought that you could have engaged shacknews in a better way by bringing shacknews posters into the conversation rather than having new people register. if that makes sense - i think i'm reiterating things you appear to already have read, so i don't want to rehash old comments.
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So...interesting story. WoW was never going to have slimes. The team was against it because "slimes can never be cool."
Challenge accepted.
I secretly had Samwise, Blizzard's top art director, draw me a slime concept. I asked him to help me make slimes cool. He came up with that brilliant concept of a slime with the skull embedded it in and all the bits and pieces of loot suspended inside it.
The team took one look and said "Damn...that *is* cool" and then put slimes in the game.
That's why they are there now. True story.
Oh wait...that wasn't your question, was it? :)
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I know reading through this giant mass of a thread has left me a little burned. It's cool to have devs come in and talk about their game answer questions and participate in the general community. It's not cool to have a giant mass of spamming to get a game into the top 5. Best way to get the shack interested in a game is what was mentioned earlier inviting a ton of Shackers into the beta and having us play around and participate.
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This is what they are talking about. It's pretty obvious, but pretty easy to close the thread as well.
http://www.shacknews.com/chatty?id=26729247#item_26729247
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It was most definitely not caused by those 400 posts. The Shack staff does weekly giveaways that generate many more posts than that in a shorter amount of time and the site is just fine, and there are posts frequently that generate that many comments. If the site went down when you were posting before, it was just a coincidence.
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Not according to your compatriot Bensam123.
However, I think i'd rather talk to you about it since you seem more rational about the whole thing. Anyways, yes it was probably not solely us. When we were on here, the whole site went down, and there were more people posting. It was the one that ended up going 1200. The site went down, and we attributed it to us. People do that.
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I can see why people that look for conspiracies would think something is up, but I'll just tell you what happened in point form, so we can stop arguing and talking about games.
1) I wrote an article
2) Red 5 CEO saw article
3) Red 5 CEO asked his community to support the game by posting here about it
4) This happened
5) We were all having fun.
6) A few people parked their wahhhhhhmbulance on our front lawn-
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This is a serious request: Could you please point to some specific posts by me in this thread that back up your claim? Even this massive subthread has been almost entirely civil debate between a few different users. A couple short exchanges between Bensam123 and TheJayde are probably the worst of the bunch but even those were pretty tame.
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I'll use the opportunity to call the ECO out again. I've seen fairly recent development on the Gamefly rental app for iPhone with expanded functionality for profiles. It seems disingenuous at best to be actively developing and improving them for one portal while saying they're not needed for another.
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Got to say, after reading Shacknews since the Shugashack days and watching all the changes over the years, this is one of the most depressing things I've seen yet. This blatant shilling which is seemingly supported by the Shacknews "reporters" is just plain sad. I don't care if you change the color scheme, I don't care if the search function doesn't work, but I do care when the integrity of the community is compromised for some unrealized free to play crap.
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Well, it's nice to see the interview and the news on pets, but these zerg rushes are kind of odd. (Yes, I know I am part of it, and its fun to try and decimate the site.) However, I don't really understand the bloody point of it, unless Shacknews happens to be The Source of gaming news, or some sort of other awesome hype measuring mechanic. I didn't even know this site existed until the devs at Red 5 pointed it out, and quite frankly it really doesn't stand out. (Yep, fighting words.)
I wonder how Red 5 is going about on collecting information on game expectations and the like. Us rabid fanboys are never the most reliable or innovative source of ideas, and I am worried that this pet idea is one of those concepts pulled from a shallow and biased population of said rabid fanboys.
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I sincerely hope you're not taking me or anyone else seriously on that. What about the other stuff I wrote?
Why is Shacknews so great? What makes it so different from other sites that it deserves this weird ass attention?
This should be getting you angry, or offended at least, if you get what I am implying. >-
To be fair, I see that Red 5 asks the same of its community on all sites that write about it.
To answer your question, this site has been around since 1996 and Grummz (Mark Kern) has been a Shacker for a long time. He likes it here. You don't see what's "special," that's cool. Sometimes people lack the potential to be awesome, but you'll do fine in your life.... I'm sure of it.
Also, I'm joking. So, please... please place all angry replies directly in the garbage (literally print them and throw them away).
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I... maybe the same...
Except a like two people... ive found the community to be okay so far. My only concern is that I tend not to follow communities very far unless they are very much into the one game I'm focusing on at any given time. I tend to go head first into games, and my last game was League, and my next game is Firefall.
Sad to say, the majority of my gaming news comes from Penny Arcade, and other similar websites.-
I get all my gaming news from this site, Penny Arcade, and Giant Bomb. You're coming in from a tough spot having to defending the poor posting of those you arrived with. There is an active shack group here for any game that is actively being played. There are regular threads for LoL and HoN. Firefall looks like it could have a good run on the shack, only time will tell.
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No, the whitened posts are only for the last (4?) posts to the thread.
The feature you're talking about is one I like very much, which is why I personally wrote a script years ago that adds that functionality (a highlight on posts that are new since your last refresh) to the site. It broke in the redesign but someone else re-implemented it in Chrome Shack:
http://adam.hughes.cc/shack/chromeshack/
That's only if you're using Chrome. A lot of people access the Shack via entire third party programs like Lamp:
http://shackwiki.com/wiki/Lamp
or Winchatty:
http://winchatty.com/
Both of those also have the same "new since last refresh" feature. -
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Well, imagine a forum thread on a traditional forum with as many replies as this article has. It would be nearly impossible to read and follow the same number of side discussions and one-on-one back-and-forths. The really cool thing about the chatty engine is the freedom for small comments to exist without disrupting the readability of the overall thread.
Someone can post a joke in respnonse to a longer conversation, and 100 people can respond to that specific post with "lol" and "haha" and it won't make the rest of the discussion or other discussions in the thread harder to follow. In a traditional forum those 100 "haha" replies would make it nearly impossible for the thread to recover and get on track.-
Good point actually. In the Firefall forums, if you click a link you've read before, it will just take you back to the same spot you started on. Honestly, I feel a little spoiled with the structure they use. Hell, the LoL forums still don't let you use avatars, and they've been out for... a long time now.
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Yeah, it'll go back to where you were, but if you wanted to quickly review an earlier part of the thread where Bob and Shirley were debating the merits of adding a murloc pet to Firefall, it would be very hard to find. You'd have to pour through a bunch of pages to find it, and when you finally do, each post in the exchange would likely be spliced with other people saying other unrelated things. It's a matter of preference in the end, but I like threaded systems a lot better.
Lack of avatars and signatures is a good thing in my book. I hate extra clutter that people just use to put gigantic quotes, images, or their computer specs :P-
Well, I dont like sigs because they just make posts long, but I like Avatars because you kind of get a feel for who people are, and something visual to assign them to. I know that there are a few pictures in the FF forums that I will just go to because I know them and want to know what they have to say. Then... there are some that I know to avoid because the picture is there. Though, I'm sure that is just a preferential thing. This system seems like it could work out based on the threads branching system, and it keeps things compact without the avatars so...
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On Wednesday you'll see the pet we did with Penny Arcade at www.crystitechallenge.com
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I'd like to say thanks to you grummz for making challenges and what not that those of us who work 8-12 hour days can actually participate in (it's hard to get involved in a give-away that only last 3-4 hours if it's during your surgery shift!). Even though it makes me stay up much later than I should I always do my best to catch but up on all the forums I'm watching and at least glance at anything in the DevTracker!
Love the game (and I haven't even played it yet!) and can't wait to get my next paycheck and build a ballin' PC to run it on max everything! Keep up the good work!-
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Yup I'm getting a 560 Ti with an i7 2600k, a Sabertooth P67-R3, a small SSD for OS and current games, as well as 12 gigs of RAM and a really comfortable gaming chair! :D
Do you think I should go with a good cooling card like a Frozr II and manually overclock it, go with a factory overclocked, or just get a normal 560 Ti and not mess with it??
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At moment, it just bounces to your http://www.firefallthegame.com/home website.
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Could also be a good way for Red5 to make some money. I don't want this game to turn into like beauty and the beast with all the animated walking candles, brooms, clocks, closets, etc.... It would just become to hecktic for me i guess, so i want them to be a bit realistic.
I don't think the devs would do that though, just wanted to get that point out. I'm sure lots of people would agree with me. Also, I want to see pets that look cool in this game, because this game is going to be cool. I don't want to see it falling towards the more ridiculous side.
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Generally the feeling so far appears to be "keep them out of the e-sports viable areas", even though pets in pvp might be 'interesting'.
So for starters, I expect these pets which are purely cosmetic not to be allowed in PVP areas.
In the future, open world PVP is on the plans to be looked at, which might start mixing things up a bit.
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Like I replied to imthatguy1234 above, currently pets are planned to not be allowed in 'e-sports' type areas.
Source: in response to question about pets in combat: "Can you confirm if you were referring to combat or non combat pets in this specific instance?"
Grummz: "Non-combat. Probably not in eSports maps either....but you never know...we need to play test it and some kinds of pets would be funny in PvP "
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