Carmack: id pondering Quake 1-style reboot
"Strong factions internally" at id Software fancy returning the Quake series to its roots with a reboot of the original, Lovecraftian-y style, John Carmack has revealed.
"Strong factions internally" at id Software fancy returning the Quake series to its roots and the Lovecraftian-y stylings of the original Quake, id's technical wizard John Carmack has told Eurogamer. However, he makes quite clear, "Nothing is scheduled here, people are not building this."
"We went from the Quake II and the Quake 4 Strogg universe. We are at least tossing around the possibilities of going back to the bizarre, mixed up Cthulhu-ish Quake 1 world and rebooting that direction," Carmack said. "We think that would be a more interesting direction than doing more Strogg stuff after Quake 4."
"We certainly have strong factions internally that want to go do this," he explained. "But we could do something pretty grand like that, that still tweaks the memory right in all of those ways, but is actually cohesive and plays with all of the strengths of the level we're at right now."
The first Quake was a Doom-y shooter set in a moody fantasy dimension with Lovecraftian references, populated by hordes of demons. However, it also had plenty of industrial complexes, soldiers, and military weaponry. The mix-up stemmed from shifting focus during development; originally Quake was to star a Thor-like character with a mighty hammer, and feature RPG elements.
"I looked at the original Quake as this random thing, because we really didn't have our act together very well," Carmack said. "But because it was so seminal about the 3D world and the internet gaming, it's imprinted on so many people. It made such an impact in so many ways. Memory cuts us a lot of slack."
1997's Quake II had a whole new setting, pitting players against the techno-organic Strogg. Quake 4 continued the Strogg story in 2005, after 1999's Quake III: Arena largely did away single-player to focus on multiplayer.
id CEO Todd Hollenshead added, "People shouldn't worry that we're ever going to orphan or abandon Quake. We are huge fans of the game internally."
id's next game will be Rage, which is headed to PC, Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 on October 4. Beyond that, id has been teasing Doom 4 but not yet revealed it.
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Alice O'Connor posted a new article, Carmack: id pondering Quake 1 reboot.
"Strong factions internally" at id Software fancy returning the Quake series to its roots with a reboot of the original, Lovecraftian-y game, John Carmack has revealed.-
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even if it's just a return to the same Lovecraftian style and has similar gameplay elements (i.e. not a 100% gameplay port), I'd be all over this. For example, I don't want none of this iron sights business in Quake 1 remake, but perhaps an improved melee system for the axe (or other melee weapons) would be an interesting addition
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it did, but it was also 2 different games. The left hand didnt know what the right hand was doing. Thats why you have military bases and then all of the sudden, weird medieval castles.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/99639-John-Romero-Darksiders-is-What-I-Wanted-Quake-To-Be
Does anyone have a backlog of John Romero's original .plan updates? He wrote a huge one about the Quake concept and it was totally different than what we have today.
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I'm fairly sure many talented people have left id software and accomplished far greater than Romero ever did but just because the guy was outspoken he gets a ridiculously absurd amount of credit.
If it were up to Romero for instance, Quake 1 wouldn't have been anything like it actually was. It would have been far closer to Daikatana. The thor like character with a mighty hammer mentioned in the article was basically replaced by the protagonist in Daikatana with a sword. I think, but can't recall for sure, but there were RPG elements in Daikatana as well. Daikatana was essentially Romero's vision of Quake.
I'm not saying Romero has no talent or doesn't have a lot of great ideas. I'm pretty sure he made some of the best maps in both Doom and Quake. He just doesn't deserve to be on some pedestal.-
there's quite a lot of things wrong in your post:
-romero built ionstorm. without both studios there would never have been a game like deus ex.
to say he didnt accomplish anything is ignorant of what he did and what he does. daikatana was a turd (with the exception of the mp which was great) but not only didn't he really contribute barely anything to it beyond his name he also took all the shit for it. so if you want to hate him for daikatana you have to keep in mind that it was him that allowed specter to build deusex.
he failed on his ambition and on the lack of his management skills but everything he and carmack spat over came through. romero wanted to build a bigger studio with more people and more products as he knew it was the way the industry was developing. carmack did not. in the end id was bought and they are doing what romero wanted to do a decade ago.
he was quite ahead of his time when he decided to make mobile games and produced some good stuff like hyperspace delivery boy. now he is making moneyhats in casual gaming with stuff like ravewoods fair on facebook.
-romero just like hall pushed for a more complex gamedesign in doom (look at halls doom bible).
he wanted it in quake as well. in the end just like in doom they scratched it pushed it out because the game was already quite late. he designed like 60% of the the maps (the best ones i might add). its his accomplishment as much as anyone else on the team despite him wanting a slightly different route.
there was an interview where carmack didnt even agree that stuff like shooting marks on the wall or the ability to crouch should be in any game because they were non-essential (it was over duke3d). carmack needed some counterweight that romero always supplied and people put both on a pedestal because those two were the driving forces behind doom and quake.
i love carmack and id but i really believe that id software might have been a better game developer if they didnt get rid of romero.
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Actually nothing was wrong with my post.
I never said Romero didn't accomplish anything.
If you seriously want to act like Romero deserves a large amount of credit for hiring Warren Spector and the success of Deus Ex, while almost no fault for Daikatana and the entire collapse of the company he built, then there's really no reason to even bother debating it.
I actually agree with your end statement. I think id software would have been a better studio if Romero had stayed. He just gets far more credit than he has proven he deserves.
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i actually made the opposite argument, if you want to shit of him for daikatana you have to praise him for making deus ex possible. furthermore what i disagree on is your assumption he gets more credit for doom and quake based on what he did later on. which is absurd. he was the lead designer of doom and quake, he wrote the design papers, made the bulk of the maps, wrote the mapping tools etc
he and hall did have other, maybe greater plans for doom and quake but he pretty much shaped both games with his design.
he receives the praise he deserves, making daikatana out to be what romero is solely to be judged on you are being wilfully ignorant of why people praise him.
if you want to criticize him for being a loudspeaker or whatever you are right but then again he was practically the whole pr department of id software back then while helping out lots of other companies to get on their feet with hexen or heretic for example.
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I should resurrect a post I made last year:
Give me some torchlit Lovecraftian cross-dimensional high-explosive action. Iron and stone, fire and blood. Please make it fast, keep the mechanics simple, and use all three dimensions in the level design... the environments shouldn't make any concessions to realism.
http://www.veoh.com/watch/v18005455TgFtb7PT
There's something special about the broke-ass inconsistent themes of Quake. I can't think of anything else with a similar atmosphere.
Also see http://www.lunaran.com/page.php?id=200 -
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PERSIA INVERSION!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9yAT2XwU0Q
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If they do this and preserve the ultra fast paced action (like they should), I can't imagine it playing all that well on a console. Quake is too hectic for a gamepad.
Of course, you're thinking "Who plays Quake with a gamepad???", but that has to factor into their decision on the business side of things. -
HIJACK Am I the only one loving gaming's trend of returning to roots? Platformers are 3D games set on 2D planes, Doom 4 will hearken back to the fast-paced frenetic style of Doom 2, and now id's also seriously considering a throwback to the mismash design and blistering speed of Quake.
There are plenty of other examples I can't really think of, and obviously not everyone in the industry is following along. But I'm enjoying the effort, as the mid-90s was my favorite gaming era. Developers were focused on gameplay and fun, not flashy graphics and nickle-and-dime DLC packs.-
I really enjoy that things like Terraria are still being made, and can be successful and profitable. Portable gaming also helps make it possible for things like Phoenix Wright back a genre.
There are some genres that are pretty much totally missing though nowadays. No one will probably ever make a text-heavy RPG again since everything needs to be voiced. X-Com will apparently never get made again, nor will things like Rainbow Six or SWAT4. Beat-em-ups rarely get made anymore, God Hand and Viewtiful Joe are the last ones I can think of (although I guess Guardian Heroes remake counts, I don't have a 360 though :( ). X-Wing is dead.
There are still things I have hope for. Policenauts and Snatcher? These games are begging to be made again on a touchscreen device, adventure games as well.
Overall, despite the enormous glut of FPS, there are still some fun creative games that manage to squeak by. -
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i'm not sure i want them to. look at what made quake great and how fps have evolved. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcwOniYIr0s the high pace action doesnt really fit the modern id formula anymore and if you listen to what tim willits said about the already slowed down and simplified map design and gameplay of quake3 in comparison to quakeworld you get the impression there is no future for the things that made quake great. (he called the design his biggest mistake as it was too complex and beginner unfriendly, apparently quake3 did sell pretty badly back in the day).
i'm sure the visual technowizard/lovecraft design will be great and its fuckload better than the generic strogg shit but the core gameplay of what makes quake great even today is a feat that can't survive in a modern aaa title. the audience does not exist for it and nobody would risk a 20 million dollar project for it.
i'm waiting for doom4 to see if they can find their way back but if doom3 and rage are any indication i don't want them to sully the legacy of quake 1. -
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man i can recall the stories of buying my doom shareware (one really seedy porn ridden kiosk with a clerk i could smell from a distance), getting my quake shareware of the net (the disks where shipped to me from munich because i had no access to the internet) and buying my duke shareware cd at an obscene price in a dubious computer store.
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Yeah, I followed Quake development since the first day it was announced. I used to read .plan's every freaking day. I downloaded that demo as soon as I could get my hands on it and pre-ordered the game through prompt in the demo. I still have that original disk actually (which now requires about 5 patches and additions just to run correctly :) ). But.. holy shit.. the first time I saw GLQuake running on my 3dFX... it's the closest games have ever come to porn for me. I know people talk about creaming their pants when they see an awesome new game.. but that time.. I think I was seriously close.
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The last thing id needs to return to is a spooky, hellspawn, monster-closet shooter. Keep innovating with new IP... not old, tired IP. Everything that was good about Quake 1 is no longer relevant today.
Quake was good for a few reasons, just off the top of my head:
1) It was the first. As in, the first 3D shooter done well. Plus it had 3D card support.
2) It was multiplayer.
3) It was highly mod-able. Actually, the mods are what made it good.
Not a single one of these points is relavent today. Every game is 3D with 3D card support. Every shooter has multiplayer. And most engines, if modable, require too many resources to mod effectively for small teams. Nothing about Quake's single player was interesting enough that it warrents a reboot.
If id wants to make a Lovecraft game, fine (but please don't). Just don't call it Quake.-
Who needs monster closets when there are slipgates? I think it can be done better with an algorithm for populating the level dynamically, guided by waypoints and skill settings, as well as player feedback logging. I'd love to see the setting and weapons in a larger environment. Not sandbox, but large enough to contain a huge castle, manse, grotto, etc.
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I don't think that style of play is relevant anymore. Sales numbers support it, and player numbers support it. Halo is about as close as you can get to a popular version of Quake today. And even then, its more like a distant cousin.
If we're talking strictly multiplayer gameplay... I think that fast paced, map-control, non-regen health type of death-match gameplay has run its course. Unreal Tournament took it about as far as it could go. Maybe if they put a deep meta-game progression system on top of it, like CoD or something, they could get a following... but as-is, Quake era gameplay... I don't think it will pull enough people to sustain a community.
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I think you are missing the point and not giving id the credit they deserve. I've seen Rage running at PAX East and the game looks friggin' amazing (it will be the best shooter this year if not for many years). id has come a long way since Quake. If they can take the knowledge and engine they have now and re-capture some of the atmosphere and off-the-wall monster design from the original Quake?! If they do that right.. Holy Shit... it could be AMAZING!!!
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I don't know that a return to the mish-mash is wise, but if it's a return to the Cthulhu side of Quake 1, I say go for it. In that case, the one they'd *really* want to bring back is Sandy Petersen, right? : )
Bonus points if there's a mode with bi/tri/anisotropic filtering disabled so you can make it look like the original software renderer! -
Hell yes. I loved quake wars but the strogg really suck. I want castles, weird steampunk versions of modern weapons, and lovecraft.
Also, the guy that did level design for this mod now works at id:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SInxOqGe0Y&feature=related
I found it extremely fun, I go back and play through it semi-regularly.
http://www.moddb.com/mods/shamblers-castle -
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If it's a 1:1 copy of Q1 and it revitalizes the Q1 dm scene I'll be happy. If it's not a 1:1 copy and it's still fast paced death match that is fun as hell I'll be happy.
If it's a dumbed down version of Q1 so people that don't like super fast paced twitch FPS can play it I'll be sad.
That group of people has enough FPS already. Where are my quakeworld FPS at.-
Was the HL remake of Q1 DM ("Deathmatch Classic") a success?
http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Deathmatch_Classic
I never played it, but I'm not sure if it was popular or not. I got the impression it didn't really catch on. 'Course, at the time it was competing with CS and TFC...
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Yeah, seriously. That grappling hook was so amazingly fun... it's kind of odd that it really hasn't been used effectively in any other game since. They put it in Quake 2 and it was still fun there. But... Quakeworld Thunderwalker CTF with grappling hook.... forgetaboutit... probably the closest I've come to gaming nirvana in my life.
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your right about the story line, but the gameplay in SP was great and really tense. The game had an amazing atmosphere and the setting was actually really unusual when you look back at it now. A sureal combination of dark fantasy with futuristic gothic stylings, really cool stuff. I think it was kind of accidental if you look at what they original intention for the game was, but it still ended up being pretty amazing. Much more interesting than the strogg based sequels.
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The lack of a story is what made the game great. The minimalist approach leaves a lot up to my imagination instead of having some boring cliche shoved down my throat.
I still play the game from time to time so it's not nostalgia. Change just enough to make it new and it will breathe new life into it. -
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I played Q1 today. It's fucking awesome even now. Yeah, so the graphics have aged a lot, but the gameplay is still really good fun, and the theme and monsters are varied and not constrained by modern day story telling bullcrap. You have guns and the enemy have guts, that's about all there is to it. What more do you need?
Plus the game has TONS of add-on content. Thousands of maps (hundreds of good ones), many mods (and Quake 1 is where modding really took off, so many game types such as CTF and Team Fortress started from Quake mods.) If you don't care about the graphics (which aren't that bad on many recent maps when you use a modern engine) then playing coop on maps you've never tried before can be a lot of fun.
If id made a new Quake with the same theme as Q1 that was even half as fun, it would probably be the most awesome game of whatever year it launches.
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And by that, I just mean from Masters of Doom and this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6raOGEx3Ib8
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Best game intro music EVER: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv5Jvr2Fp48
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Just played blood on dosbox and SHIT THAT NEEDS A REMAKE!!!!
Remember huffing bundles of dynamite and they scream the loudest fucking scream ever?
Before you light em up, they are hungarian or whatever, after they are in so much pain they scream IN ENGLISH!
So bloody, so violent, and very funny. On the first level there is a secret where you move a bush and in there is a grave with a raven and it says draven on it. Funny, that's the crow. Even new shows and games will do that. \
Whoever has the rights, make a blood remake.. for the love of god!! -
The only really major changes I'd want in the multiplayer would be some beefier shotguns perhaps (Quake's shotguns were a bit weak coming from a DOOM/DOOM2 background)...and some more weapons (but the old ones too...so you could still have the more traditional setup on some maps).
Single player they could do all kinds of crazy stuff with...but I would really want the multiplayer game to be the ultimate balls-to-the-wall crazy instense fast over-the-top violent oldschool DM in the style of QW with bunnyhopping and all.-
Also this album cover always made me think of Quake for some reason (it looks like there's a huge shambler lurking in the background):
http://www.nuclearblast.de/shop/artikel/bilder/amorphis-karelian-isthmus-from-the-privileg-of-evil-ep/149788.jpg?x=1000&y=1000
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