Evening Reading: Dragon Fade
It so happened that over the weekend I also saw The Men Who Stare at Goats. Now this show's worst problem was that it wandered off aimlessly into the desert but the way the final cut wound up didn't do it any favors either. Wondering about what was left on the cutting room floor and whether it could have come together any better led to me thinking about how the whole movie post-production process could be examined to improve video games.
Okay, so clearly film is a whole other sort of media. It's one thing to shoot a number of different angles and takes for a scene but quite another to do something similar in a game. That doesn't mean the concept doesn't work; it just needs to be adjusted to the game production cycle. In the case of Dragon Age: Origins somewhere before the time got invested in creating all the Fade area someone needed to storyboard it or play it in a prototype or something and say, wait, this really disrupts the flow. Then they could have come back at and figured out how to get across the cool mystical parallel world element of the Fade as it relates to the game world without breaking the pacing of the overall experience.
Here's the best stories that helped us hit our stride today:
- Brutal Legend DLC 'Hammer of Infinite Fate' Announced
- Stargate MMO Still Not Done but Developer Does Have a Stargate Shooter Coming
- Assassin's Creed 2 Patch Due This Week"
- Borderlands DLC 'Zombie Island' Now Available for PC
- Price Tag for America's Army Now Up to $32.8 Million
I knew he was popular but I wouldn't have guessed that Eminem takes the title of best-selling artist of the decade.
How did CBS come to the conclusion that perverting Frosty was a good way to promote Christmas classics and their shows in one?
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hey I think I played against you in MW2 recently, Mosh Pit playlist? I was [EMU]Dudeman (with a bunch of other equally colorful friends) and I felt bad because I was using my retarded One Man Army Noob Tube kit and blasted someone with your name, and felt a pang of remorse for potentially killing a fellow shacker in such a disgraceful way :(
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http://i49.tinypic.com/ogjpe1.png
hahaha :) -
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It's amazing that people are so hostile to him. Is it because he often writes about games' (perceived) faults? Because he puts opinions in a personal and vivid context? He's definitely the most expressive writer to do these posts in a long time, but I guess people want squids and funny links instead.
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I've never had to contend with site design, so the width changes and such never even occurred to me. Interesting nonetheless, now that you've pointed it out. Still, considering how deeply rooted the problems of running a community with this comments system appear to be, I'm interested to see what your solution is.
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I like this idea. I really only check out news stories when I haven't banned anyone in awhile. They get out of hand after they sit for awhile and we forget about them.
What about people who are just popping in all "HAY! I like Mario Brothers! Let me mention that to people! OH GOD WHY IS THIS GUY POSTING PICTURES OF HIS BALLS????" Do you think this would draw more lurkers/casual posters in or run them off? I think it would definitely bring the heavy posters to the news stories.-
The comments already run people off like that; I can't see how his solution would be any worse.
Also, imagine that the "article comments" are links to a specific thread, just like clicking the "Permalink" icon on the left side of any thread. That way the casual commenters wouldn't see the rest of the threads unless they specifically wanted to. -
no no no! just make the front page article an OP in latestchatty.x and all the comments to that article a subthread.
So latestchatty sees all the frontpage article bumps in latestchatty, but if some dummy brings political/nws/stupid into that thread they are automatically filtered from the frontpage article and/or nuked
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This sounds pretty slick. For clarity's sake, you mean clicking on the "comment" button for a news story would link you to only that news story's thread? I know I'm not alone in thinking that the current format of latest chatty shields us from some of the more frighteningly stupid internet denizens (see: latestchatty app and hoverboards), though isolated linking of story chatties from the front page would protect against most of that.
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In case it wasn't clear, I think this is a great improvement.
It's certainly not guaranteed to solve either of the "unsustainability" problems you identified downthread, but it's a move in the right direction. It certainly prevents Gamefly from deciding to "just stop posting those chatty threads" in the future. -
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For me, this has nothing to do with Garnett's writing. I like his writing. He's experimenting, trying to find a style that works for him and the audience, and it's noticeably different every week.
Haiku's idea is good for all the reasons he articulated, none of which are "getting rid of chatty posts". That's part of the solution, but not the reason for it.
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it's useless these days. any minute change is anathema to the hardcore chatty addicts. people went from barely paying attention to the ER and MD posts to first criticizing alice for her esoteric existential ramblings to bashing garnett for his "weird style". you can't win. so, good ideas need to just be implemented without regard to the community. they will adjust after many sessions of whinging.
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To interlace the news thread with the chatty thread is fucking brilliant. So, in between us showing shaven balls and asking for tits - we are forced to see,. in latestchatty, the bumps of the actual news articles in chatty. FUCK - this is brilliant.
We comment from chatty, front page posters comment from front page - and all are collated / interlaced into the visible chatty thread and into the front page post.
Good lord this is actually genius, haiku. For once I have to agree - BEST AT SHACKNEWS. -
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I don't disagree with anything here. It's almost like we should have a separate "latest chatty" dedicated page with only a single visible page. Once a thread slips off that front page, it's gone, but the comments search would still bring it up if you really had to dig it up.
The only problem is how to deal with megathreads that won't die and the thresshold for number of posts on that first page. -
I agree. I would have no issue with the chat thread just sticking around as one big thread so that people could bump old topics instead of reposting.
That said, what little I know about the system we have here from years of posting makes me think that even if not for the community's sake, that the chatties would load very slowly and be a huge problem, especially for conversations that start to get into the hundreds of replies.-
You can't have a continuous chatty for that very reason. A page with an allotted number of threads would alleviate this. Bumping back onto the page once it's been bumped off (through a comment search) might be problematic as everyone who does a parent author search continues (or tries to continue) to converse in that thread, making it more or less "sticky", which goes against the very nature of what the current shack chatties are all about. Bumping lost threads should be avoided in such a system. Bumping active threads would be a-ok though.
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i was just thinking of this thread, specifically
http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=19698623
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Don't care about his posts really, evening reading started sucking balls when they stopped posting links to entertaining random news stories. When was that? Years ago?
Uhm. Garnett, you didn't make it through the fade? How far is that into the game? 10 hours?
You just missed 40 more hours of excellent story and play. Good job!-
good job at totally failing to comprehend what he was saying. He hasn't given up on the game, he's just saying the Fade is a hard slog and has destroyed the pace of the game for him, which is a valid complaint, since it is quite an abrubt change. Yeah it gets (much) better, but he'll find that out himself and maybe we'll get a followup post. :)
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I don't get why everyone hated the fade so much. It wasn't awesome, but I don't think it deserves the hate.
I enjoyed being able to transform into a giant rock dude and hurl boulders at whatever. The only part I really could have done without were the rat bits. Those were just annoying. Plus it was kind of fun to run around solo for a little while. It gave me a chance to break out of the routine I had fallen into when fighting enemies (pause, send my character out to collect enemies, let party auto attack, use morrigan to kill, rinse, repeat).
It wasn't my favorite part of the game by a long shot, but it certainly wasn't my least favorite.
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I don't get his hate for the Fade part of the game. While I agree it was a bit slow, certainly not my favorite part of the game, it only took a few hours to get through, and it was reasonably interesting at least. I liked having to "wake up" my party members. So it's a relatively slow portion of an otherwise A+ game, so what?
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See this giant thread of angst about Garnett? And we've had them before. Yet a couple weeks ago, i made a small comment about how his "Weekend Sighted" (or whatever his Friday night ER posts were being called) was getting confused with the actual Weekend chatty, with people thinking it was just posted a few hours early, as demonstrated by all the people who were posting their threads there thinking would be in latest chatty all weekend, only to find out that wasn't the case a few hours later when the actual Weekend chatty got posted.
It was a brief observation that maybe he should think of a better title for his post. But the response was a bunch of people jumping all over me saying ZOMG WTF YOU JUST DUNNO, BUT BUT THAT WEEKEND SIGHTED IS A REALLY IMPORTANT CATCHPHRASE OF GARNETTS THAT HE'S USED AT SOME OTHER WEBSITE THAT WE ALL KNOW ABOUT AND STUFF SO SO SO UR WRONG AND GARNETT IS SO AWESOME AND FYAD AND GTFO AND HURRRR.
The Shack is so fickle and hypocritical. =| -
The style Garnett is going for is tough to do, I think, but that he misspelled 'role' I think is telling. It is supposed to be role, right, and now roll, alluding to some RPG board game? Whatever, the "this made me think of this which made me think of this" can work and no doubt it could work well for this site and the chatty, but it does need to be looked over, read aloud, revised a bit.
Ah, I don't have time to explain the changes -- 5-10 minute revision trying to keep the style -- I made but I hope they're self-explanatory. I don't dare assert it's flawless but I think it's a bit better--and, if anything, shows where I think his attempts to write in this style stumble a bit.
I started Dragon Age a couple weeks back and immediately got really into it (PC for those wondering, and I'm happy with my choice). But boy did they hit the nail on the head calling the Fade the Fade. My obsessive night-in and night-out role playing came to a halt and I actually went to bed at a decent hour. If I bother finishing this section it will be because I know the game can't become this uninteresting and stay this uninteresting.
The free time from Dragon Age I used to see The Men Who Stare at Goats. Now, the movie's worst problem is that the narrative wandered and the final cut of the film only made it more noticeable. But that made think about what the editors left on the cutting room floor and whether they could have cut the film better. You know, to somehow keep my interest from...fading.
Despite the increasing similiarities -- games becoming more cinematic, movies becoming more game-like with CG -- film is a still a very different medium.. It's one thing to film many angles and takes for just one scene, leaving some on the cutting room floor, but it's quite another thing to do that when developing a game. That doesn't mean the Fade doesn't work; it just needs to be adapted to how people create games. With Dragon Age, perhaps they forgot to storyboard The Fade or, even, to play it and didn't realize how disruptive it is to the flow of the game. They could have come back and figured out what parts of this cool mystical parallel-world element of the Fade to keep and what parts might be better left on the floor.
I hope I didn't make it more verbose :D That said, I love the game:movies parallel but I'm pretty sure games have storyboards and playtesters, so the comparison of editing doesn't work when you juts say ...someone needed to storyboard it.
Just trying to be constructive. -
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I'm with you, I enjoyed his podcast at 1up and honestly I guess I don't pay attention to the front page enough to be horribly offended by his entries.
The grammar police stuff is typical internet, so that's expected but I think certain shackers have a mancrush on Chris Remo and pretty much can't tolerate any deviation from that.
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