Morning Discussion
Alright Shackers, feeling ready for this year's E3? The Shack staff will be working hard to cover things, and we've got a preview of events right here. It's kind of the calm before the storm, so how about those new XBL games this week? And don't forget our Guitar Hero: Aerosmith contest, unless you're air guitar-phobic of course.
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replyFallout 3 is, in actual fact, Oblivion with guns -
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/888/888731p1.html
Some quotes -
"Fallout 3 is very much Oblivion in a post-apocalyptic world."
"As improved as Fallout 3 is, it still feels like Oblivion in a lot of ways (even if you can't sprint -- though you do move faster if your weapon is holstered)"
"Even the inventory system and interface is taken right out of the last Elder Scrolls, so there should be a high level of familiarity for returning players here."
"To sum up, Fallout 3 looks and feels exactly what you'd expect a hybrid of Fallout 2 and Oblivion to look and feel like "
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I played Fallout 1, 2 and Tactics when they were new. I loved them but the actual combat in 1 & 2 weren't fun.
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It's true. There is nothing to the combat in the Fallout games.
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Good! Wouldn't want it any other way.
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That's like saying Deer Hunter is pure awesome because all the rednecks think it's great.
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We are getting a Fallout sequel with 2008 game play.
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They've made improvement.
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assuming you read the rest of the article you'd have noticed they have hand crafted everything and won't be using procedurally generated anything
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they explicitly mentioned there is no procedural generation in FO3 and its all hand crafted. If you want to selectively pick and choose which part of previews and press to believe we're not going to get very far with a discussion. I didn't like Morrowind or Oblivion at all for various reasons but that doesn't mean I'm just going to ignore the parts of the preview that sound amazing.
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Fallout 3 is about the little details, and they're everywhere. While much of Oblivion was generated procedurally using software designed to create a credible landscape, Bethesda's follow-up is a genuinely hand-made game, where every burned book, ruined home, and story told by the ruins themselves was carefully designed, as Istvan explains: "The art team went cell-by-cell. There's not a single piece of the game that hasn't been touched by hand. It's not procedurally generated - we didn't want to do that this time. Every rock you see, every tree, was placed by hand."
http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/static/EkEVAZpAAyLUBDSsde.php -
why would I make a bet against your arbitrary feelings which quite often hate what are otherwise well received games and which are already predisposed to hating this one?
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Ergo I'm wrong? So minority = wrong? I'm blown away by the fact that people will continue to quote Bethesda's success and mainstream appeal as reasons to praise Oblivion. You all blasted Meet the Spartans, but the majority of movie goers seemed to like it as it did quite well in theatres.
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No, once again reading things that aren't there. He said you're in the minority, not that you're wrong. You're more than welcome to not enjoy Oblivion or Bethesda games in general, but that puts you in a minority. There are a few million people who love their games and are willing to spend $60 on them, more than enough for Bethesda to cater to them rather than people like you who will hate their game before they've even shown any gameplay.
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All I can say is if it has level scaling like Oblivion, I won't touch it with a 10 foot pole. What a horrible way to destroy any of the fun of exploring in a RPG. I mean I used to love everything that Bethesda produced (no matter how buggy it turned out), but Oblivion was a snooze fest in the long run (but admittedly I got at least 10-15 "interesting hours out of it, and 10-15 "not totally bored hours out of it).
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You're wrong.
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IGN...
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The word of the day is "hyperbole". It's an open world game, but it's not Oblivion.
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Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't played more than 5 minutes of Fallout or Oblivion.
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Always liked the adage, you can't spell Ignorant without IGN.
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fuck, i dislike elder scrolls
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oh shi "So if you didn't like that game, or the series for that matter, then ignore everything I've said thus far and go read something else."
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not so much
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Due out in October. its July, or last I check.
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I played it on pc but the interface was fine. I don't know if they screwed it up on the ps3 or 360 version.
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Fuck.
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Story wise you should be fine, but you might not appricate the world as much. I'm getting the pc version. I'm tired of the 360 locking up all the time.
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Ugh, I loathe the Elder Scrolls series. So far they've been one underwhelming bundle of disappointment after another. Always letting you know just how good they could have been and then failing to put together any sort of compelling narrative or enjoyable game play. They have their moments but nothing of Fallout's caliber. I just hope that last sentence is true, and there's more Fallout 2 than Oblivion in it. Otherwise it's going to seem really deep at first and then sink in how shallow it truly is about 5 hours in.
But hey, some people like them. So at least they'll be getting something new. I just wished their favorite series wasn't wearing the skin of my favorite one this time. =(-
Yep. I'm betting Fallout 3 will be amazing in terms of the look, feel and overall presentation in the first 3 hours. Then you'll start feeling the world lose it's charm as the prefabs become apparent and the environments get increasingly stale. After you finish the "dark brotherhood" equivalent questline you'll also realize it was one of the few highpoints.
Only unlike Oblivion I probably won't have the energy to keep playing hoping it gets better. -
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Right, which is why I put the last sentence about some people liking them. And you investment of time doesn't make it a good game for me. Some people spend hundreds of hours scrap booking, doesn't mean I want to. As far as I'm concerned they gave my favorite series to the best damn scrap booking company there is. What they do they do rather well people tell me - but I don't like what they do and I don't particularly get it either.
To me TES has consistently over promised and under delivered. The ideas are there but they lack the polish and execution to make them work. While a lot of people still enjoyed them, I did not. However, while I quit every TES game early on because of how uncompelling I find them, I'm still playing Fallout 2 ten years later. Hell, I never finish that game because I'm having too good of a time. Every little quest has character, and I'm still uncovering interesting stuff in the world. Every town feels different, and has a different personality. Every character has a defined personality. The game is just damn charming.
This is where TES fails for me. It lacks personality, charm, and most of all enjoyable game play. It's a great sandbox, but I never find myself wanting to be in that sandbox for more than a few hours (I've reinstalled it Oblivion three or four times trying to love it, and Morrowind about as many).
So you can see my apprehension in taking what is in my mind one of the most personality laden, charmed, and enjoyable games ever and putting in the hands of a dev who has reached for awesome each time and has always come up short, leaving their games a feeling a bit like a husk of what could have been. They say my concerns have been addressed. And the stuff lplasmatron says is very, very encouraging, but I have my reservations for sure.
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not really. All the time the devs have said "its not oblivion guys, its fallout!" and now the first previews are saying the exact opposite....
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says the preview that played the game for a couple hours and scratched a self described 1% of the game
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how do you propose we get the FO2 team working on FO3? Since that's not possible you'd rather NO ONE try to make FO3? Because its impossible for anyone but the FO2 team to make a good Fallout game?
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where did I say I think Bethesda is the only one who could do Fallout justice? Do you just read whatever you want to see? because that's what you're making it look like
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I said in lieu of the original team doing it you'd rather never see another Fallout game? that was the question, it was pretty straight forward. Your answer is yes, that's fine, but I'd rather see someone try and potentially get another great game in a franchise I love and I'm not going to shit all over it before even seeing a gameplay video or playing it myself.
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Fair enough, but it seems some people are already fawning over it given the same information that makes me cringe. Thats all. I don't understand why people flip out and pull out the "fanboy" term when I'm simply taking the opposite standpoint they are. It's like it's only ok to be irrationally optimistic.
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There are plenty of people with tempered enthusiasm here. There are plenty of people who loved the shit out of both Fallout and Oblivion so the combination to them sounds amazing. There is simply not enough information, even second hand, to be relentlessly shitting on the game. If you can't find any positive things in that preview to make you excited then I don't know what to tell you.
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You're only allowed to hate Uwe Boll and Sony on the Shack, everything else you have to love or you're just a troll.
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I'm not a Fallout Fanboy I am someone who strongly dislikes Oblivion.
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Well look, I consider Fallout 2 _the_ best RPG ever. One of the best games in general ever, if not the best. It's not only the script, the world and the characters, it's also the near-perfect gameplay it had, both in and out of combat.
On the other hand, I _hate_ just about everything about Oblivion. It's pretty, but the controls, the limitations of the engine (especially regarding combat) and much more of it just summarizes what I don't like to see in an RPG game.
Bottom line, I think it was a HUGE mistake (talking about product quality here, not about profits) moving the FO franchise to the Oblivion engine, or whatever it is called. I see no way in hell they can pull off even half the game that FO2 was with an engine with the limitations or rulesets that this engine has.
Maybe, just maybe, I'll be positively surprised when I get to play it, but the small chance of that happening won't stop me from discussing my opinions on the decisions they've made with the game so far.-
I love Fallout as much as anyone, I waited years for the original after reading a preview in PCGamer, but if you think it had near-perfect gameplay in and out of combat you're just romanticizing the memory to yourself. Combat was horribly balanced and a chore in large fights. Numerous weapons were overpowered. Stats were horribly unbalanced with agility being massively more important than any other and things like luck being largely useless. There were huge swaths of skills that were useless for anything but gimmick builds or had no reason to exist (first aid vs doctor, throwing weapons, outdoorsman became useless with the car, etc). Perks and traits weren't balanced either (every person took Gifted). Plus the thing was riddled with bugs from cars disappearing, NPCs constantly bursting into your back with SMGs to a million other things (and Fallout 1 had plenty of problems with things like NPCs blocking doorways and no moving or being moveable).
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Well it's not "a memory" as I still play FO2 at least once a year for several days. I just don't agree with you on the statements about combat. I like having "futile" skills and perks in a game, there's nothing like a good gimmick build to test out. Sure there were bugs, plenty of them, but never said there weren't. Didn't hinder game play 99% of time.
I don't think a single player game needs to be balanced. It needs to be fun. Fallout 2 was fun, Oblivion was anything but.
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I have no idea what you're talking about regarding limitations in the engine and rulesets. Do you honestly think that stuff can't be changed from how it was in oblivion just because they're using some of the same programming? That kind of stuff can probably be changed by a simple mod, nevermind by the actual developer.
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I could have been a bit more careful with my selection of terms. Short version of what I meant:
I don't see them pulling off even remotely the same kind of game play with the same kind of feeling with the oblivion engine that they did with the old FO2 engine.
If they do, it will be one-of-a-kind achievement. But based on the previews, they have not even tried. Hence my disappointment.
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Like that will ever happen.
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"Even the inventory system and interface is taken right out of the last Elder Scrolls, so there should be a high level of familiarity for returning players here."
ugggggghhhhhhhh
The only inventory system I liked less than Oblivion was Bioshock. Even STALKER's wonky system was superior to Oblivion.-
It was better than Mass Effect's inventory system.
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And the least powerful items were always on the bottom because of the default sorting, so when your inventory became maxed out, and you wanted to sell off your least useful junk, you had to scroll through several hundred items to get to the bottom to sell an item, and then it would reload the list and put the cursor on the top again, forcing you to do it all over.
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I think calling it a "system" is a bit generous.
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FUCK. I hope this is not true. Oblivion I think has too many flaws to be considered a great game.
Chief among them the world feeling like it was stretched WAY too fucking thin to compensate for scope and scale. So you get the 100th elven ruins or dungeon, oblivion wasteland/gate, or the millionth time you hear the same voice actor in a city repeating the same lines. Secondly, the level scaling and loot system was pure shite. You never really felt that RPG hook - feeling like your character progresses and becomes stronger as relative to their environment. It was all arbitrary...you could take on an oblivion gate right at the beginning and arguably it would make it easier. Stupid. That game was less of an RPG and more of a moving illusion dressed up with a decent story.-
the world of FO3 is smaller than Oblivion's but has more content and its all hand crafted rather than procedurally generated. The level scaling is gone. Your concerns have now been alleviated.
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All true.
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Not sure where you read that.
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I've seen it posted several places...I guess it was taken from some interview where the dude mentioned that each area has a level "range", but it's entirely possible it got completely misinterpreted.
So, is there no scaling?
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there is no level scaling, it has been stated numerous times by the developers (like the post above me for instance)
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It sounds like there is still some scaling but it's quite different from the mess that was Oblivion
http://fallout3.wordpress.com/2007/07/14/desslock-explains-level-scaling-on-fallout-3/
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You guys might be reading too much into this. The author is clearly a big Oblivion fan, so he thinks he's helping it by comparing the two. When he calls it a hybrid of the two, all you guys see is "oh no zomg Oblivion influence" but don't notice the Fallout 2 part so much. I mean, isn't that exactly what we've been hoping for ever since we knew what this game was? If you still haven't been able to swallow that it's 3D and played in first person then just go play fallout 2 again.
Saying it's "like" oblivion or "feels like" oblivion means very little IMO when it's by the same developer using the same engine. I would expect a lot of traits to be there, actually. However what it does NOT tell me is all the important things:
1. Did they get the atmosphere right?
2. Is the hybrid combat good?
3. Are the enemies and dungeons good?
4. Is the voice acting a whole lot better and varied than oblivion?
And so on. If the inventory system is just like Oblivion then that's probably the one negative for sure I see here.-
Stop being rational! This is THE SHACK!!!!!!!!
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The Shack?
This..is..THE INTERNET!! -
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Chicks without dicks.
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www.shackpics.com will prove you wrong.
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Midiclorians. ... Go!
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As much as this gets brought up, the Shack seems more rational in general compared to a lot of forums, like those at 1up, ign and gamespot.
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Oblivion with guns ... AWESOME :D
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I don't think anybody is saying they know how the game should be made, except maybe for the vocal people who want it exactly like the other games.
I personally just hope it's as much authentic Fallout as humanly possible. The big things (like being first person and undoubtedly an oblivion type of game) IMO are pointless to worry over and complain about at this point. They will never change, you get the game this way or you get nothing.
I'm still holding out hope though that the stuff people liked the least about oblivion is gone, and the stuff people liked the most about Fallout is there. I think the stuff we do know (omgz no killing children!) is pretty minor.-
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except they're not basing it off Oblivion, they're just using the same engine and learning from their previous experiences with RPGs. This is like complaining that Bioshock is using UE3 and therefore will be a shitty shooter devoid of any real story.
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I think most first person "action RPGs" would be far worse choices than Oblivion. TES IMO is one of the best matches. On a very basic level you have a big, open world with a lot of freedom. There are just a lot of little design choices they'll need to get right, or go in a different direction than they did with Oblivion, but on a high level I think it's alright.
Though I don't know if it's right to say they're "basing it off of" TES. They're using the same technical resources, and of course a lot of designers and artists might be the same so I think we all expect to see some similarity, but it's not like the two are linked in any way other than sharing some (mostly technical) resources.
I guess that's why the "it's like oblivion with guns!" stuff doesn't bother me so much. We've known it'll be oblivion style forever (as in what the world is like and how you exist in it) but what will make it an OK, crappy, or awesome sequel will be all the details we don't know about yet.
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they can't please everyone. They put the game in first person and think 'oh god everyone is going to be pissed what can we do to alleviate some of their fears and show its just like an old fallout game?' so they show a super mutant getting his arm blown off in a bloody mess using a targeted turn based combat system. That shows a lot more of the similarity to Fallout than a single screenshot of a dialogue tree could.
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they don't, but you do!
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This makes me sad because there was so much wrong in Oblivion. I mean shit, the inventory system and interface similar to Oblivion? That was the worst part! :(
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If they fix the stuff that was wrong with oblivion's world and get the Fallout stuff right, I don't care if I have to alt-tab and edit text files to manage my inventory. =(
Not that they shouldn't put something together for PC. I'm just sayin, the inventory screen is like the 97th thing on my list of questions about this game.
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true; although I think there's an explanation
there were a lot of good elements in the game and I got about 30 hours out of it before becoming bored - that said it fails on so many levels as a game, from story, bad main quest line, to retarded enemy parity, generic dungeons, incredibly ugly character models, radiant AI fundamentally broken, and so on
their task is to fix all those broken things and re-create the novelty that made Oblivion still a good game despite having so many horrible flaws
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Part of the problem is when you say Fallout 3, people got it in their heads that it must be an over head turn based game. People just don't like change. Look at the uproar with Diablo 3. People are pissed because they added a little color.
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Actually that has very little to do with it. People want a turnbased game, but everyone knew that wasn't going to happen as soon as the IP was sold. Therefore the hope is that it will be a good first person action rpg. However many people don't feel Oblivion is the pinnacle of first person rpgs.
I enjoyed Oblivion myself, but I really don't want to see another RPG replicate it's flaws. I can barely even start the damn game anymore without being turned off by them. Maybe Fallout's setting and character interaction will win overall, but it seems to me most previews won't go into much detail here. I don't understand why. -
I'm getting really tired of hearing this from people who think they know what's going.
Fallout created an immensely detailed, interesting, and living world around the player. Fallout was filled with character and soul, and that's why people loved it. These are all things Oblivion completely failed to do, even with 10 years of advancement in technology. Oblivion took place in a largely dead world with nothing of interest. This is what people think of when they're hear "it's just like Oblivion!" and rightly so -- what Oblivion missed the mark on the most is what gave Fallout much of its charm, and to think Bethesda would miss it again with FO3 is a huge disappointment.-
I've been following Fallout when it was still a GURPS game. I know what is going on. . What gave Fallout its charm was its setting. There has been no indication that will be missing from Fallout 3.
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I think 10 years of advancement in technology hurts the soulful living world thing, rather than helping it. When you're looking characters right in the eye and hearing their voice, you have to get a LOT more right and do a LOT more work on just that one moment as opposed to having a sprite just stand there on the screen and have a bunch of text for you to click through. Let's just hope they get it all right in any case.
Then like I said elsewhere, in this article anyway the guy clearly likes oblivion. When he says it's like that it probably means something quite different than if a big critic says it.
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I love you but that's such a shitty analogy.
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Because people love to point out when things are "flawed." They play for 50 hours straight then look back later and decide they in fact did not like it or something.
Oblivion had some dumb things in it, like a lot of generic dungeons and out of the way areas, the fact that everybody had the same voice, the level-matched monsters, and other dumb stuff like that. But somehow this makes the entire rest of the game unworkable for some people.
Or maybe people want something out of it that isn't there, like productive random dungeon crawling, etc.-
I think mostly it's because people wanted a game that took advantage of the PC instead of the console, and the realized potential was never reached or even attempted. In the beginning, the fantastic graphics and atmosphere dazzled us, but the further into the game we got, the more we realized how much was missing, inferior, and what sacrifices were made to get the game out quickly on the Xbox 360.
Oblivion could've been so much more, but wasn't. Now the prospect of Fallout 3 falling under the same trap is not an appealing idea.-
blaming Oblivions flaws on the fact that it came out for the 360 as well as PC is foolish and completely lacks merit. Level scaling wasn't for the console, procedurally generated environments weren't for the console, the same flat NPCs and AI that existed in Morrowind weren't for the console, the inventory system was as bad as Morrowind and wasn't for the console, so how exactly was the 360 the reason it was inferior?
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There's been numerous interviews with Pete Hines and Todd Howard of Bethesda before and after the game came out that had them acknowledging that they made sacrifices, cut corners, and specifically wanted to "mainstream" the game.
Numerous skills removed and consolidated, inventory interface with super-large font and incredibly inefficient for mouse use, simple combat system to make it easy on a gamepad, and that's on top of the numerous problems the game suffered from being rushed to meet the launch deadline of the Xbox 360 which made the game feel incomplete as you digged further in.-
Maybe they decided those skills were superfluous and better left consolidated rather than make you grind out 4 skills to do simple stuff? Nothing about the combat makes me think it was bad because of the console, it was bad in Morrowind as well. The games just didn't have well designed combat systems. I'm sure some things were cut, but the vast majority of the game was there. It's not like they decided at the last minute to stop hand crafting things and switch to a procedural model. Or that they didn't write any NPC dialogue until the last 2 months and then suddenly had to rush it all. The game was what it was and if you don't like what was there blaming it on the 360 is just a silly scapegoat but I know you love using it.
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I always felt oblivion was somewhat mediocre - certain parts were OUTSTANDING (dark brotherhood, thieves' guild, etc.) but it was wrapped up in a shitload of very very mediocre filler. If as much care and creativity had gone into the rest of the game as those certain great aspects then I would have liked it much more.
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How quickly can you do those two? My first character had 80+ hours before the expansion and the Thieves' guild and Dark Brotherhood were his main existence. I'm sure I did a ton of side quests and some wandering though.
But that's one of my hopes for Fallout 3. They were originally planning on a smaller world with more of the concentrated awesome like those things. I know they said the world ended up growing larger but I hope that's just because they needed more places for the awesome. =(
The one thing that should definitely have been higher quality was the oblivion gates. Looking back, they pretty much mean nothing in my memory of the game. Just some of the situations I got into. I mean, I can deal with filler if it's some random cave in the countryside, it at least can feel real and random even if not making for the best gameplay, but the gates were central to the main story.
But then again, we all know the side stuff was far better than the main story anyway.-
I think I was an extremely low level, because stealing meant something. Every new item I stole I wore. I also *had* to hide from the guards because I was not physically able to fight back. So I'm pretty sure it was the first few hours of the game, as I hadn't yet touched anything else.
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Only 2 parts of the game worth a damn honestly. Everything else seemed to be there just to be there.
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I never did those either. I keep meaning to go back and try but never do.
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Go in to the exact same Hell level for the 7th time to get the same damn orb and kill the same damn enemies.
I was so tired of the main quest by the time I got to the last Hell dimension I just had a invisibility spell I chain cast and avoided all enemies to get the orb. -
It didn't really keep me interested long enough to get that far. I just didn't enjoy the combat system, the inventory system was frustrating, I had no idea where to go, etc. Maybe if there was a better tutorial.
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You didn't know where to go? But people complained and even made mods to remove the stuff where it pointed you to exactly where you needed to go! I guess it just goes to show you can't please everybody. =)
I liked it FWIW. You could wander wherever you wanted looking for side shit to do, but if you wanted to get back to a particular quest you just selected it and you knew right where to head.
I don't have much of an opinion on the combat, since I was usually hiding and picking people off, not doing any traditional fighting. I enjoyed that though. But the point of a game like this IMO almost doesn't even involve the combat at all, so I really doubt it could've hurt my enjoyment of it.-
Well, maybe if the game was better, there wouldn't be a million mods required to make it playable.
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Oblivion is awesome, but it's not what we want Fallout 3 to be.
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i read that too but I don't remember where. Thats one thing I will miss. I loved playing a stupid persion in Fallout 1 & 2 (and Arcanum which was very much like Fallout 1 & 2 from the same developers) Gotta love wuests like: "GO TO BIG CAVE, GO KILL BAD GUY!"
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I guess I wouldn't find it too hard to believe. If everything is voice acted, then I could see the decision to remove stuff that really complicates the dialog without really helping the game/story/quests. After all in Fallout it's just a few bytes of text.
I'll only like it or agree with it though if they do it so they can make the rest awesome.
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Wouldn't surprise me. Bethesda cut out many skills and character traits in Oblivion to make it more "mainstream".
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durka durka
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I believe I heard you won't be able to have a grunting character with <3 INT (and who cares? it was funny for the first few minutes but its purely a gimmick in the previous Fallout games). There will surely be stats that influence dialogue, there's absolutely no reason they'd take that out.
If you look at the design docs and interviews about the original Fallout 3 (ie Van Buren by Black Isle) you'll see they thought a lot about changing the way stats influence dialogue. In Fallout 1 and 2 there was very little for a smart or charismatic character to do. You had INT and CHA (and as far as I know CHA really didn't affect dialogue that much and its primary use was increasing the number of NPCs you could have at once) and Speech and Barter (the latter was totally one dimensional). Black Isle was going to remove speech and break it into Persuasion and Deception among other things. So it would be hard for Bethesda to have less than FO1+2 in FO3 in terms of speech skills.-
Well as I see it the reason for it's existence is making sure only smarter characters can talk their way out of things. Chances are if you put your bonus stats into your conversation and intelligence skills then you probably aren't as strong as a bruiser. Thus you *need* to have some sort of advantage,
If they allowed strong barbarians to talk their way out of fights the game wouldn't make much sense. -
/In Fallout 1 and 2 there was very little for a smart or charismatic character to do.]/
No that's NWN :p
Fallout had the option to be either a stealth sneaker type guy or a charismatic talky guy. You could finish the damn game very well as a pacifist. No other major RPG release made that a more viable option than Fallout did. Seriously.-
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It's been a little while but I believe you could submit to them and the Lieutenant and get taken straight to the Master but I could be wrong. I do remember having a difficult time fighting the Lieutenant multiple times
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yeah, that's why I couldn't remember if it was possible, because I've definitely had that happen. Alternatively according to gamefaqs it looks like you could avoid him altogether, set the self destruct sequence in the base (assuming you had a high enough science skill) and get out of there. But then you don't get to talk to the lieutenant and he's got some sweet background on FEV and such
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I meant from a skills/items type standpoint. A combat character had tons of stats, skills and items to play with. A diplomatic character had INT, CHA, Speech and Barter where really only Speech regularly came into play (CHA and Barter almost never). You had tons of options as a diplomatic character in ways to progress but little in terms of playing things differently than another diplomat. There was no way to specialize in intimidation vs. deception or lying constantly vs. negotiating in good faith in terms of stats or skills, only by dialogue options which were all opened up by the exact same skill (Speech). So in that sense it would be difficult for Bethesda to have any fewer skills that influence dialogue since Speech is in there and that's basically all FO1/2 had even though it enabled a whole lot.
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yeah, it was just often a little too specialized. Computers and Science were each extremely useful at certain points in the game but very few others (and those certain points needed high levels of the skills). Likewise for stuff like Repair. Lockpicking always seemed only somewhat useful and 99% of the time was just used to open some locked crates for extra loot. As I said before, the skill system definitely wasn't all that balanced.
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Sorry, it's called Speech rather than Charisma:
http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x?gallery=10190&game_id=4244&id=122003
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in FO1+2 it was mostly used to carry more NPCs in your party at once. INT and to a much greater degree your Speech skill were pretty much what carried a diplomatic character. In any case yes FO3 uses the same SPECIAL system as FO1/2 so you've at the very least got those basic stats and then a new suite of skills as well.
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You must be the sharp-shooter of Kvatch!
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By Arroyo, By Arroyo, By Arroyo! It's the grand champion!
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Look at the guns on you.
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Hey, it's Arnold Swollenhammer! I've got your blow up doll!
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I love post apocalyptic stuff and am looking forward to Clear Skies but I also want a real RPG in that setting and STALKER is very far from a RPG.
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No, what really makes Fallout 3's combat so badass is the creativity that Bethesda has worked into the battlefield. Take the Rock-it Launcher, for example. Though you can load it with explosive devices just as its name implies, you can also load it with just about anything else small enough to fit into it. One of the most enjoyable moments I had during the entire demo was stuffing the portable mortar with a bunch of stuffed teddy bears and decapitating angry mutants with them
hah, I can't wait.
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I was hoping they'd take more cues from Vampire: Bloodlines.
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I haven't had a chance to play Arcanum, but Bloodlines is one of my favorite games of all time. Even though it was a FPS, it completely felt like it was made by the same team that made Fallout. From the way they handle characters, to the storyline and missions, it just feels similar for some reason.
I think developing it on an incomplete engine that was constantly changing, and the subsequent early release that coincided with Halflife 2, pretty much sealed its fate and Troika's. I really do wish they were around still. I bet in this day and age of digital distribution, they would've done a bit better (hell, Bloodlines is still selling on Steam).-
I loved Arcanum. Played through it 6 times. Never could get into Bloodlines.
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Yet, by many people's accounts here on Shacknews, you can't release a modern FPS RPG and have it function like Fallout. It "just wouldn't work".
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what?
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I think a lot of us had strong reservations about Oblivion, and are understandably cautious about seeing that game's mistakes getting repeated in our favorite franchise.
Oblivion's biggest weakness, in my opinion, was a lack of atmosphere. Some people, not I, blame the first person perspective for part of that poor atmosphere. Fallout games are basically built entirely on atmosphere. It's easy to see how a company like Bethesda could repeat their mistakes from Oblivion on a new game like Fallout 3, and easy to see how people could latch on to specific qualities like perspective and go "SEE! SEE!"-
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the majority of the mythology shouldn't be communicated through silly books
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If most of it doesn't really matter to the completion of the story, why not? It's no different than the encyclopedia thing in Mass Effect or stumbling across computer records in Fallout. It's a way for people who are interested in the history of the world to learn about it without forcing it on the people who don't want to know, and without having NPCs constantly giving history lessons for no particularly good reason.
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its the ratio that I thought was off as well as how close they were to the main story. Fallout's tapes were few and far between and they were usually dense with a cool little subplot or history (and often were important to the story). Most of the atmosphere and mythology of Fallout was told through the gameplay, atmosphere, NPCs and dialogue. I didn't get that from Oblivion and then it means I have no desire to read through 1000s of books everywhere. Baldurs Gate 2 had those books everywhere and I loved BG2 but I'm still not going to waste time reading those books. Its sooo ancillary as to be uninteresting, where as Fallout was more like you've infiltrated some base and you want to know wtf and then you find some tapes of conversations between high ups revealing what the base is about. Oblivion's books were more 'history of the elvenkind' and it was just like fanfic for the super huge fans of the world but it was difficult to get to that level of fandom since I didn't think the world itself made me interested enough to read more.
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Oblivion definitely had a good number of "The History of Elvenkind"-type books, but it also had stuff more like the taped conversations. I've found diaries, fables, personal accounts, biographies, fiction, religious stories. I wasn't so much interested in the regular history books as all the other stuff.
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I see where you're coming from, but I have to disagree. For me, every major dungeon type felt cool and atmospheric the first time, but once I started to see the patterns, they quickly became stale. There were some very memorable, atmospheric moments, but on the whole, I felt like I was descending into the same dungeons over and over again.
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I fucking loved Bloodlines. I have fond memories of playing my Malkavian who sported a huge fucking Cat in the Hat hat.
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I enjoyed Oblivion, I enjoyed Morrowind, but there are some seriously fucking stupid people in this thread. Everything good in Fallout is exactly what everything bad was in TES. These two games are essentially the antithesis from one another (as much as two western RPGs can be that), so why oh why can't you accept that some people are going to be a little worried about Fallout 3?
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Everything good in Fallout is exactly what everything bad was in TES.
I actually disagree with this somewhat. They both benefit from detailed worlds and histories. The primary areas Bethesda needs to improve on as compared to Fallout is a more compelling main story and better NPCs. It's something they're aware of and are working on. Since it's being directed by the guy in charge of the Dark Brotherhood quests, there's a pretty decent chance that they'll succeed.-
I'm not sure there was much of a detailed history in Fallout, this was more conveyed through the main story line and one or two side quests( where as in TES you learn the history from books and dungeons and the main quest). I'd say if anything TES has the more detailed and consistent history.
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I recall correctly and you are correct.
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you'll be happy to hear this then http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=16553693
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LOL http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=16554654#itemanchor_16554654 I have a short memory, I guess.
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Whenever I read a post like this, I feel like I've been robbed. When I played through Oblivion, I did it as a pretty stereotypical "good guy," and thus ignored both of those quest lines. I hear they're the best thing since sliced bread, but I don't have the heart to play through it again.
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You've been robbed. The DB questline were far and away the best set of quests in Oblivion.
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I agree, since Fallout had a horrible inventory system see what I did there?
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Oblivion's inventory system sucked on consoles as well. It wasn't a PC vs console thing, it was a fucking terrible design thing.
Putting everything into a huge list that you could only filter by 5 different types, in a game where playing naturally would leave you carrying literally hundreds of certain item types, was just dumb.
A simple refinement would be to make it an inventory tree rather than flat lists, so you could at least collapse the sections you wanted to scroll past. Of course there are even better things that could be done to it with a bit more thought/work. I liked the idea someone on here had about letting people create their own filters.
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What's wrong with a Diablo-esque inventory? http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-pirates5/diablo2.jpg
I like being able to see what I'm equipping and where.
Even World of Warcraft's inventory system is better.
The problem is they have to make something that will work on consoles too. It's too bad they don't make a separate, more usable inventory system specifically for PC users that's not the dumbed down console version.-
there's nothing preventing someone from doing an inventory like that on a console.
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yeah, I agree, the problem that Morrowind and Oblivion had was those single slot icons were way too small and difficult to discern and there was far too much to sort through given the inefficient way to do it.
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Yeah, well the way you solve that is by just not fucking having that many items - I mean who wants to sort through that much shit no matter what the interface? Am I at work? Do I need to manage a spreadsheet? cRPGs are about making roleplaying immersive, they should be deep and complex and everything, but ultimately they should hide the numbers from you as much as possible.
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I think one of the problems is that the game actually fed you shit. Randomized loot meant that you often opened up a treasure box and it was full of random crap, plates, forks, bread, whatever.
These items weren't even vendor trash, they were just regular trash, best to be discarded. Unfortunately, eventually people get tired of sifting through boxes for something good, and start using the "take all" button. This leads to inventory clutter.
If the loot was a little more streamlined, and I didn't have to worry about opening up a box full of medieval tupperwear, I don't think my inventory would've been so hard to manage.-
Based on what they've been saying, they're doing away with most or all the randomized stuff in Fallout 3. You may still find a lot of useless crap, but I don't think there's anything wrong with having a fictional world with a lot of the clutter you would find in the real world. It can give the world a more (formerly) lived in feeling, and might even be useful in a game with realistic physics.
In any case, I had more trouble dealing with all the potions that I made and never used than I did managing random clutter in boxes.
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They shouldn't expect it? Isn't everybody complaining about how awful Oblivion's inventory system is when you get a lot of items? Isn't that just what would happen again?
If you're suggesting that devs should not allow players to pick up hundreds of items, fuck that. Being a packrat if you choose is just part of freeform RPGs.
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That kind of inventory won't work if you need to be able to carry hundreds of objects.
Maybe the fact you need to (well, not need to apart from a few keys, but I bet most of us ended up hoarding things like soul and energy crystals etc.) is what's wrong with Oblivion, rather than the inventory system?
If they scale back the amount of shit you have to carry, or just let you mark stuff as "Keep" "Sell" and "Not looked at yet" and allow you to filter on that, that might be enough.
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yeah, but I'd say that was partly due to the increased complexity in Oblivion. If Fallout had as many different equipable slots and usable items and was real time its inventory would be just as bad. Especially FO1.
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What? No the reason Oblivions interface sucked is because doing even simple things like dropping an item was horribly unintuitive. In Fallout you just right clicked to get the menu and chose the drop icon. Oblivion was like a drag + hold down some key or something and if you got it wrong it would just put the item in your hand... god I don't even wanna fucking think about it. And that's a problem that's got nothing to do with complexity.
convoluted I can handle, illogical design kills me man. Oblivion is just... it's a horror. It's a dick in this PC gamers eye.-
it was horrible, but Fallout's was pretty bad too. A giant list you had to click through with no ability to organize anything. If Fallout had as many things as Oblivion it would be even worse but Fallout didn't require you to dig through your inventory nearly as often as Oblivion. But yes Oblivion definitely was worse, I just like that in these threads everyone always harps on how bad Oblivion's inventory was (myself included) and forgets that it wasn't exactly a strong suit of Fallout
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You know this is getting old.
Not necessarily targeted at you, but:
Whenever someone mentions how Fallout 3 is going to be Oblivion with guns, some folks (myself included) say, "No big deal; sounds fun." They are immediately attacked and disparaged by "true Fallout fans". That is bullshit.
I played Fallout and Fallout 2 in 1997 and 1998. I still have the original discs. I have the original Vault Dweller's Guide manuals. I love Fallout, and this handoff to Bethesda is fine. I am not worried at all.
I just don't like the insinuation that if you don't like this new iteration, it means you don't "appreciate" Fallout or you're not an old-school fan. Bull. -
so basically it says the same map and inventory, but is different in most everything else? I can live with that... the combat sounds more interesting and I think they'll get a better atmosphere and more fun out of this then the ES. If they want like a million brownie points though they could actually fucking set the interface up for PC.
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http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=17415376
I'll still end up buying the damn game anyway. -
So, pretty much awesome?
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Perfect!!
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FUCK THE FALLOUT FANBOYS. BRING ON FALLOUT 3. Part of me almost hopes they totally screw it up, just so these fucking fallout fanboy faggots (FFFF for short) just off themselves.
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Even though I'm hopeful, I don't think there's any way in hell Fallout 3 is going to be pure awesome in liquid form, as you say. As much as people like to hate on people pointing it out, the more its like Oblivion, the worse it gets. And as far as we can tell, it reeks of Oblivion the more we find out about it.
The only thing I wanted from Oblivion in this Fallout was the open, detailed, first person world. That's IT. They could have ported Fallout 2 over from that for all I would have cared.-
One of my favorite things in Fallout (and PS:T) was the descriptions given when investigating certain things in the world. They did a significant amount to add character and charm to the world, as well as give your character some personality beyond the cardboard cutout seen in most of these types of rpgs (including Oblivion). I'm absolutely positive these things won't be in FO3, and think the game will be much worse for it. :(
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Then don't buy it, replay Fallout 2.
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Hell, I'm buying it. I'm just sad at what could have been.
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Same. I'm just sadden that my favorite part of those games is largely considered outdated because developers think graphics are "good enough." Graphics will never be "good enough" to add the sort of charm and character these descriptions did in Fallout and Torment. All you're left with is the lifeless and stale world of Oblivion.
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Of course it won't. You've already decided it's shit. When you play it, any time something good happens you'll say "well it's SUPPOSED to be like that" and any time something happens that you don't like, you'll add another notch to the "GOD THIS IS HORRIBLE" meter.
All you're really doing at the end of the day though is ruining the game for yourself before you've ever tried it.
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Have you ever played Counterstrike Source with him?
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aww you are so cute. I too enjoy almost every one of your posts, considering how fucking retarded they are 95% of the time. I guess we see something in each other:)
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oh, I read some of your wonderful posts in this thread, no wonder you were so offended I coined the term FFFF, which apparently is starting to catch on farther down in the thread. You are one of those FFFF's hahaha oh man. Great, I hope you and your NMA buddies don't hire a hit man to come get me for not hating anything that isn't old junk.
Yeah thats right, I just called fallout 1/2 old junk. In fact I played through both of them and thought they were both insanely over-rated, I had trouble even forcing myself to get past the first 10% of F2 it was so horrid. Jesus, Nostalgia turns some people into fucking morons.-
"Yeah thats right, I just called fallout 1/2 old junk. In fact I played through both of them and thought they were both insanely over-rated, I had trouble even forcing myself to get past the first 10% of F2 it was so horrid. Jesus, Nostalgia turns some people into fucking morons."
Then why are you awaiting a third game in a series you don't even like, proceeding to mock fans of said original? Troll much?-
I enjoyed Oblivion quite a bit. If Fallout 3 is in fact Oblivion with guns, well then bring it on, ill be a happy camper. Especially not having to deal with two of the things that irked me the most about Fallout 1/2: Horrible graphics (and obviously this was a limitation of the technology) and turn based combat. The trailers for Fallout 3 look spectacular. And while that in itself doesn't mean it will be great, I have enough confidence in Bethesda to know that this is a game I will pick up and play for a whole bunch of hours.
I fail to see what wanting to play Fallout 3 even has to do with whether I consider Fallout 1 or 2 to be good games? I disliked the mechanics in those two games, the story and setting was still great though, why does that mean I can't enjoy the 3rd.
I honestly don't understand what some people are holding on to with Fallout 1/2. The complaining reminds me of a little guy being held at arms length by a much bigger guy and swinging wildly to no effect. At first its just sad and pathetic, then it becomes funny, and then its just downright played out. Nobody gives a damn what a very small, very vocal minority thinks.
And I think myself, and many other people who are looking forward to this game are getting tired of having every single article/interview/trailer/screenshot have a bunch of raving idiots following the news story around saying it can and will never live up to the original games. Well thank god. I hope it doesn't, because the original games (and this is my opinion) were crappy. Everything released so far IMO looks fucking outstanding, so its obnoxious to have some guy standing around going "no way man, that is garbage, it can never hold up to true story telling". Yeah, tell me once, okay I got, you disagree, follow the conversation spouting the same bullshit into every single screenshot/trailer/interview/whatever thread and now its just annoying. I guess thats why iv just stopped trying to write reasonable posts concerning fallout, its much easier to deal with it by fighting fire with fire.
I guess I could have made this my original post, but nobody would have read it. Its the shack, its much easier to get attention by typing in caps, calling someone a faggot, or claiming your a girl.-
Well if you want my personal opinion anyone who didn't enjoy Fallout 1 and 2 probably isn't a fan of the genre at all, and frankly it's very telling that you enjoyed Oblivion and the gameplay trailer for Fallout 3. Very telling.
You attack fans because they want a sequel that lives up the original games? Wow. So I guess it's okay if Splinter Cell 5 is a tactical strategy game right? Fuck the haters. Faggots. Let's all praise it because it's brand new right? Thats what you are doing. -
So... you're sitting there calling people idiots, faggots, fanboys, morons and whatever other insult you can not just without a clue as to where they're coming from, but without even bothering to read the cause for their caution? I don't think a single person here has cited turn-based combat as the cause for their apprehension, but instead the differences in environment presented by both Oblivion and Fallout.
Many of the concerns about Fallout 3 are based on Oblivion's obvious shortcomings coinciding with Fallout's greatest strengths. This has nothing to do with combat or graphics, and everything with environment, atmosphere, and charm. You cannot create a living, fluid world with thousands of NPCs and six voice actors each with a dozen lines of dialog. You cannot create an interesting, believable environment with a hundred different areas to explore and four tilesets. This is exactly what Oblivion attempted to do and failed, which is why people have reservations of Bethesda tackling the Fallout universe.
What it comes down to is this: if you want something visually stunning that's pinnacle of graphical fidelity, then Oblivion is reason enough to believe you'll be happy with Fallout 3. If you want something with the attention to detail, care, and breadth of a Fallout game, then Oblivion fills you with a sense of dread. This isn't to say Bethesda is up to the challenge, but their previous endeavors aren't exactly indicative of what should be expected by a Fallout game.-
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Its probably your best option. Your not going to convince me your right, and im not going to convince you that i'm right. You can say whatever you want about oblivions "short-comings" and fallouts "strengths" and all this other stuff I think is fanboy bullshit, and it doesn't really matter, because its your opinion.
Like I said my problem is not that I don't understand where you are coming from, or that I dont understand why you think Fallout 3 won't be great. Ive played as many or more RPG's than you have from every genre of RPGs and Ive thoroughly enjoyed most of them, fallout 1 and 2 were an exception. But if makes you feel better lumping me in with the "oh he just like flashy graphics and shallow story and gameplay" crowd then go ahead. I dont mind having to hear people voice their opinions on a game once or twice. Its the fact that i've had to hear you and others spout off about it nonstop, thats what makes you a fanboy. Its like you just won't let go, like if you continue to shit up every fallout 3 thread bethesda will magically be like "whoa wait a minute, these 250 angry guys over here are right, lets shut it all down and make the game they want". You want some truth, if the NMA people, and most of the other fallout fanboys got the exact game they wanted. IT WOULD FUCKING SUCK.
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What the hell are you talking about?
At most I've expressed concern over whether or not Bethesda can accurately capture Fallout's character and atmosphere, given the overall lifeless world they created with Oblivion. In general I remain cautiously optimistic. How does this put me on par with the NMA people, and make me a "fucking fallout fanboy faggot?" Also, why exactly are you waiting for FO3 if you hated FO1 and 2 so much?-
see my above post
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congratulations
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I love the Elder Scrolls series as much as anyone. I've spent a lot of time studying the lore out of game, and even more time actually playing. The series is engrossing, and I can't wait for TES4 to be announced.
That said, Fallout 3 shouldn't be TES4. Especially considering it's not even their IP to screw with. (I know they own it, doesn't make it theirs.) I understand that a game that plays exactly like the original Fallouts wouldn't sell well today except to hardcore fans, so the gameplay has to evolve... but evolving into post-apocalyptic Oblivion really isn't the direction I wanted to see (although I fully expected it, I just don't want to let go of hope).
I still reserve the right to play it and make a final decision, but this is exactly the opposite of what I wanted to hear... even as a huge TES fan. -
I wrote a Fallout 3 preview in the latest issue* of PlayStation: The Official Magazine! Go read it! /shill
* There might be a newer issue on stands, now. Look for the one with the exclusive MGS4 review on the cover; it's in there. -
IT'S THE HERO OF KLAMATH
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It's gonna be great when this game comes out and the overwhelming majority of people, including those of us who enjoyed the first two Fallout games, are going to be enjoying the shit out of it while a small, angry community of uber-vocal "fans" bitch about everything possible. Hell, I'll even wade into the shitbog of NMA at that point, just to watch the crying.
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:D that is more or less my own thought process so far.
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Dude yeah I'll enjoy the shit out of it, but still I can see how people would be upset. It's like making a Planescape Torment sequel, except as a FPS with fantastic graphics and a quarter of the dialogue of the original. I'd say Bethesda is quite like the id Software or Crytek of RPGs, they push the boundaries on graphics/immersion but aren't always up to snuff on story, voice acting, etc. compared to some other RPG houses.
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why don't we wait for the game to come out before we make analogies that involve 1/4 of the dialogue?
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GOD, FINE. You win. Suck the joy right out of my life :<
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Also, they tend to release their shit with a ton of bugs/crashes.
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I'll bet that this is going to be the ugliest game release in gaming history, so far. And I'm not talking about the quality of the game. The level of hate and vitriol that is going to cut loose on the Internet is going to make people's heads spin like that kid in that horror movie.
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wow, you really HATED it?
I never played any of the previous Elder Scrolls installments, but (flaws put aside) I find it hard to believe how anyone could go as far as hate it.
Granted.. I've never played Fallout 1 + 2 either, but to me I'm pretty psyched about 3 after reading that preview.-
Why is it so hard to believe?
Oblivion had a good 5-10 hours of gameplay when everything was still "new." After that it was just a copy/paste fest of content. Three dungeons, four voice actors, an abortion of a NPC interaction system, boring loot, Oblivion gates, more fed-ex style missions, etc.
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Fallout Free Fucking Fails?
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I think he's referring to me coining the term "Fucking Fallout Fanboy Faggots" in an earlier post
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hahahahahaha yeeeeeeeeeees
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Nope. But these are the type of single-player games that give you bucketfuls of content and replayability, which makes up for not having a MP component.
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Never, ever, They don't "believe" in multiplayer for their games.
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Despite those quotes, and despite not really liking Oblivion, that preview really does have me excited for how this game is going to turn out. That and that interview that was posted a week or two ago make me really excited to pick this up.
I just wish the preview went into more detail about character interaction.
Also, stop bitching you fucking fools, all of you. I'm so ashamed to be a gamer after reading this thread that it makes me fucking sick to my stomach.-
You should hop off the internet if you can't handle differing opinions.
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Differing opinions are okay, especially since I don't really fall into either camp as far as this game goes. I'm just turned off by some of the fanaticism I've seen here.
Hopping off the internet IS a really excellent idea though.
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Also, I hope Bethesda does release mod tools for this game eventually, because a Classic Fallout mod could be the perfect middle ground between you yankees and confederates. Oh, that reminds me, is there slavery in F3? I do miss getting a shotgun wedding because I slept with a farmer's daughter, only to sell her off into slavery later because I'm poor.
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i'm sorry, but this game doesn't have enough color and rainbows, i will start an interweb petition immediately!
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Are people forgetting that people were saying oblivion sucked without user addons? Oblivion was a broken game when it shipped for the PC.
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There were flamewars too.
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that's every game with the shack. They always gush over how awesome a game is even if the game blows when it first comes out. It's only months later do they finally admit the truth.
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No, this was on a completely different level.
http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?story=41411
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oh please
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Assassin's Creed was the ultimate "this game has extremely bland combat, poor story, pointless missions, and is extremely repetitive so we give it a 9.5" game. There was an obvious disconnect between the scores and the actual text of the reviews.
Maybe I should have said "scores" instead of "reviews," but I still contest "AAA" games still get an automatic 8.5+ review independent of quality.-
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hahaha okay tin foil hat guy
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the damage system was all screwed up. That and I tried stealing in 3rd person for hours only to have a shacker tell me I couldn't because there isn't a stealth meter(iirc) in 3rd person.
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Ummm... Lets see. If you go down to Hackdirt and Have the Brethren beat you senseless with weak ass clubs for ten minutes in a medium level armor your armor skill will skyrocket. This is because not only is your armor strong compared to the weak clubs its also because you're technically taking hits regardless of the damage.
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There were problems, but it was far from broken. It sure as hell wasn't improved by cheap hacks like OOO.
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Completely unbalanced, palette-swapped "new" monsters, terrible difficulty scaling, grindy, etc. It's a lot of big changes sure, but they're all completely unpolished and amateurish.
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I got owned how? By not having patience with terrible game design choices, derivative art, and superficial changes? If that's the case, then yes I got my ass chewed on. I have no patience for sloppy work targeted at tiny, hardcore demographics.
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OOO made the game so much more fun. There became an actual point to exploring and adventuring, which it became clear was a worthless experience in Oblivion (unlike Morrowind though) after a while.
Balancing wasn't perfect by any means but it was a good attempt at fixing the huge issues Oblivion had.
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Worked great on 360.
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No it wasn't, it was a fucking blast. Mods made it better, sure, but it was far from broken.
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Yes - PS3, 360, and PC version are all coming out on the same day.
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I hope they've learned from past mistakes and are hiring a bunch of voice actors to do all of the characters. I got tired of hearing the two voice actors they had for Oblivion (I think they were in Morrowind too). Seriously I would rather have each NPC/character have a distinct voice than having a big-name actor like Patrick Stewart or, in this case, Liam Neeson.
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Of course they are going to invoke the name of a monster hit.
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Oblivion with guns: Good
Using the same shitty console interface: Bad.
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they said no mod tools on release, but the oblivion mods weren't done via tools anyway.. using the same engine, so probably?
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er UI mods, i mean
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Anyway after all the bitching and arguing, heres what the game looks like -
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36197.html
Great combat, VATS does show potential. Of course I don't like that yet again they chose to showcase only combat. Spoilers blah blah yes - but show me something besides this. Right now it looks like Stalker, only without the real life guns.
Not much to go on here, but I kept wondering why everything was firing at him without warning. Is this how you travel between cities?-
I haven't heard anything about 'fast travel' of some sort but I haven't read everything (don't want to read many spoilers). I know there aren't player controlled vehicles but if walking takes any significant amount of time they'll surely have a faster way to get across the landmass
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The reasoning I heard was that it worked in Oblivion because there were lots of wide open spaces where as Fallout is more compact and filled with stuff. Look at that 5 minute walkthrough from the conference and try to pick out how much of that terrain a motorcycle could handle. There are obstacles everywhere and the ground isn't even either.
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I've heard of a lot of whining about it, but I am pretty excited after the watching the videos. I think the combat looks better than Oblivion (although I did love that game to death). I'm not sure what people are expecting from it, but I put 100+ hours into Oblivion and I think they could do far worse than to use that as a basis for their future projects.
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Yes, i try to ignore those guys. The fallout series had some brilliant moments, and great atmosphere, but especially Fallout 2 was a buggy piece of shit. They were getting some much grief on their forums that they shut them down to stop people from complaining at the time.
Oblivion had its own fair share of bugs, but it was nothing game stopping and the game itself was so immense that I was somewhat willing to forgive those oversights.
I hope those people who are really whining about it will give the new game and chance and find that it has something they like ... -
There are two sources of anger.
One is just stupid "wahhh, it'll be different" anger. Yes, it will be different, but this is pretty much the only shot the franchise and game world has at a worthwhile resurrection. Prior to this, the franchise was dead as a doornail. Every indication is that people at Bethesda care about and believe in Fallout, and will do their very best to create a worthwhile successor.
The other is a valid concern that some of the things that made Fallout great - particularly the characters and story - won't be handled well by Bethesda. BethSoft is good at creating wide open worlds for the player to wander, explore, and quest in. They're also very good at creating believable world history (how good they are at conveying that history varies depending on who you ask). They have not, historically, done particularly well with characterization and story writing for the main plot.
There's reason to be optimistic, though. They have been aware of the flaws in Oblivion that I mentioned above since early in development, and vowed to correct them. They have far fewer NPCs in Fallout 3, and they are all supposed to be uniquely and individually voice acted. Also, the man who designed the Dark Brotherhood quest line in Oblivion is in charge of designing the main plot and such for Fallout 3.
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well, this is just the way things are going. it's really sad to see games become so console-ified :(
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ugh. :( i can't stop watching and feeling bad. this looks like post-apoc oblivion if oblivion were made for consoles as the lead platform
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It looks like Deus Ex combat. This is a good thing for me cause I like Deus Ex combat, but I can understand why people would be disappointed. Every time someone does that sort of thing there's a big chance that upgrading your combat skills means little, because with enough gaming ability you can just play the game like an FPS and use your own skills to compensate for whatever handicap the game might give you - it's true of DX, it's true of System Shock 2 and it was even true of Vampire BLoodlines, which tried to overcome that problem.
And once you do that, you're no longer roleplaying.
Ultimately though I don't care, I like real time combat, I don't care about simulating something that I can do myself very well and most importantly it seems that this utterly redundant and useless VATS system is not necessary for getting the bloody mess effects. If I can blow peoples skulls apart Fallout style by myself then yee fuckin haw.
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